my great grandfather's

http://glenbradford.com/files/Stocks/939471.pdf

\ i • • ,, "' .. \ " WOODS . '· I • .. ~-. . ~ ; ~ .. - '· .. .. , . HIGHWAY TRUCK LlSRARY. ·Q ~ . . . (1-20) ~:):::·: ... . . ~ ... ... \ .. .. ·r -,- ' ~- GLEN ROCK, N;J. .. ·y . ; '. .. .,;•·. .. ,..._ .. (.. .. .. .•. } ~MICROFILMING· CORPORATION OF M1ERICA •:.,;· .. ' . ~ . @ ,, 1975 'I'HE WOODS HIG!iWAYTRUCK LIBRARY , . -'• .. .J \ . . • 1: • •• -~ ' J ~ .. "'"'""" "~'- THE ~·lQODS HIGJlvJAY TRUCK ·LI]3RARY '\ .. .r PREFACE TO THE MICROFORM EDITION - THE READER of the Oral History memoir that follows is enjoined to bear in mind: that this is a transcript of the spoken word; that permission to cite or quote specific passages for publication must be 6btained from the Woods Highway Truck Library, which has been assigned copyright; that neither the Womds Highway Truck Library nor the New York Times Company assumes responsibility for the factual accuracy of the memoir, nor, of course, for views expressed therein; these are for the scholar_) • _ to evaluate • _ - - · ·~ The negatives for this microform have been made from the best a~ailable copy of the transcript. 1975 -I Woods Highway Truck Library 6B29 Rosewood Street Hammond, Indiana 46324 .. _ z- -. ): ·' -~ " -~ . . . 'mE MEMOIRS OF MR. EDWARD J. BUHNER INTERPRETER ~ HARRY WOODS > My name is Harry Woods. I am an American truck historian. -::;-~'- --.. The date is June .la·; 1973. The time is 10:00 AM. And the · ' . place is in the ~9Jile of Mr. Edwara· .J~ · Buhner, at 130. Counc il Road, Indian Hills, Louis~il1;;,- Kent:u~ky. · ln'dian Hi.-11~ ' is an exc1us ive, park like suburb' of ltlho sponsored their bill in the Senate that these very few (men defeated these all powerful railroad lobbyist. It has been said·that· that was the 'Gettysburg Battle 1 of the Railroads vs.- Trucking, and M~. Bu1:l:A;=r stoo?out for~mokt "in that conflict as he play&d a ~~rh~jor role in it. - -·- - ~- >: • - /- . --:. ,. " - -~ _ ., Afterwar~me, to p.ts- ch~sen st~t~ of,~;ntucky and - here his ·legislative ~a~O,inplishiJ}ents w~re'; ·even greater~ . , ..... /;~~!~!:::i~f~!:;::~~~c::t::::e:r t:ea:g::el~· .~:;i~ ~--~examples j)Y J¥id ·as' a "resul,~- . ;." butedz-eo.~~pf:!ning up th~Jt~r:>rth-South traffic from Chicag6.J. -· ??' ~~- ./ . . - -- -·~-~.:.-.. . .·while there he was responsible, to g:r:eat part, in'~th€:: · . . . - -~ . 10-20 tire being average tra~ler •· --- .- •l, we' hope to cov~r all these' J>.Oints.'with him; ;W:hicn · . ~- ·"' Htl1 no doubt make this taped ·inter\f.iewf·rather lengthy, ~ ~ - hut it will be 'fell worth it. Ano last, but· not least, I hope at the completiori.of :our ~- irterview, wnenever that might be~ 1:-h~t ·~e can read ln, . ~ ·.. ' .· . ,. or have him read in to the tape, what·becameknowp,·as . .• the, 1 i31.Jjl}ner Report, 1 whi s·o there , • j':i"..?"-' .:_ ; • .: • ~..;;,..- • I~ - · wasn '·t much of a market·'anymore"; especially, ~hcri .we ori- · . ,, - . - -~ . ~ .. - . . . ~ . ~ went on the road the hard rubbef .t.i!e hB:qn't been too far -.i:t Woods: - You ,.,.ouldn 1 t care to make a guess, as to possi"Qly • what year that was, or what era your uncle was doing that • .. - Buhner: It was before the turn of the century. Woods: We'ed say.in· the middle eighties, or nineties. Buhner: Possibly in the ninetie~. One of the things that Mr. Hayne's, who built one of the first automobiles. He came to my home town of Seymour and copied the system l that drove the ·rear axle and he took that back with him." That was the really first time· that my family was ever .,.,.- ' Suhner involved in transportation. Woods: So your unc+e really gave him the differentia1 of the car. Now the REO. I imagine -1J.f we were to judge would have probablY. been in 1914~ 1915. The one with the buggy wheels_ on it' or maybe a 1-i ttle earlier than that with buggy wheels. Buhner: It was in my high school-days so that would be around 14, 15. ·:-~ 1 _ The experience that we gained I - -~- by delivering fer ller quanities~ or rather in less us a way of definetly increas-. ing our business. we th~n bought . . our first truck f?:r ou_r n.rn selves in the fereWlizer - manufactur~ business.., a~ :that was an AB Mack, two and a hal~ ton that would haul up to six or seven tons. Then ........ ~ the cbmpany --- that sold us this truck made an inquiry a;s to whether we would be interested in operating a truck between Louisville and Chicago. Woods: What year was that, Ed? Buhner: That would be in the early part of 1930. So after checking into the whole thing ~and having ·a very " definite interest the po-ssibility of· trucking ·-w~ ;cfecid~d ·. . that we would take on ana;operation betl..reet Louisville and " . . Chicago primary of hauling meat to start with, which seemed rather odd to haul meat from Louisville to the big meat town of Chicago. But ,..,e built a refrigerator and bought , ~ . ;}.x. 'cJ~·,np r 11 -r' 'f;f1.Ci. whj ch was entirely on pneumatic tires of tbe t 1 rn". T}ual v-rheels and quite a moderp piece.-of equipment. '"h1r. vHls the r.mly truck we owned to start with the,company,. that we then organized called, 'Silver fi'leet !'-fotor Expres"s. 1 ·nr our sr->cond ;truck we--then borrowed the truck that the , fP.rti l j zer company m'fned because the fertilizer business. v1as a very ·seasonal business and we act.ually started operatinP- in October so we could use the truck approxametly three 011 four months before the manufacturing business would requ:trt~ :tt again. So then we be.-~an in the Common Carrier business, because we organized ourselves to send a truck to Chicago, and one from Chicago back to Louisville everyday. He had daily service between the two tmms. One ,of my brothers was sent to Chicago, who pounded bricks and knocked door bells in Chicago for freight coming into Louisville, and I pounded bricks and banged door bells in · Louisville to solicit the business going to Chicago'. And we were the first full time operators between the two cities • Woods: . Ed, how long did it take for one of your trucks to make the run? Buhner: At that time approxiametl¥ 12 hours. This service st~rted shortly after the first bridge was built across ' the Ohic River. First real motor bridge across the Ohio River. ~pproxiametly less than a year after that bridge was buil\·.. And· there were still stretches of unpaved 3\Jhner. --- :; roads bett-ieen Louisville and Chic·ap:o. Especially·, in·)iorth if of Lafayette as I recall they· still had t~erltyto thl~t;y miles o~ ~ravel roads • . >Joods : Now, then you went on from there to include-more trucks. You enlarged. And what were your power -units mo.stly. Most people in the middle west started out with Internationals.. Was your truck, you said a !viEtck. He started out with Macks. And then we were ready to get our third Mack, and ~e Mack dealer at thetime, he didn't know anything about overload operations. So he then sold us on the idea that· we ought to have a ~in drive Mack. An old AK Chain Drive Mack. We ran it about ten tr~ps and then we got rid of it becaus,e it would take us from 16 to-18 hours to run from Louisville to Chicago. Woods; Chain would keep flying off. 3uhner: Well we actually didn't have any mechanical troubles because we got rid of it. rhen welwent to a BJ Mack, which '1-'las really a powerhouse o:f a truck. By that time we were· running two trucks· eaCh. "'ray bet:t'leen the two cities, and the BJ Mack at that time :v;as able to haul very substantial loads because Indiana hadn't made any restrictive laws yet on trucking. We were ableto pull a trailer and a four ..rheel trailer .back of our one BJ !•1ac k. ·• / Woods: The four whee 1 t railer. Now you had trbub le wi ttl - {~~ ' } . ! - --l{ : ta~w 1 t severe. He had T_railmobile trailers nr;rl th~y we~e qu.i te well envineered. Another .truck that wo harl in the early days was an .Indiana. Rut that was a. lr-:ased unit. A driver 'Wlth his own truck, and I think that . was the f'1 i'th truck anrl from then on I don't recall anymorP but we kept gradu9;11y adding ... Woods: Now the Indiana truck was made. in Indiana, wasn't· it'? ~\ulmer: It '"as .made in Marion, Indiana. • Woods: vou bought Trailmobiles. They were at this time. Th"e same as the 'truck inqustry, the trailer companies were starting to form all over the country. :Juhner: That's right ... The 'Ilrailmobile was built in Cincinnati, -and as ·r re~all ther~ was· one trailer company in Louisville. Manufacturer in Louisville. As a matter o+' fact they built .our first reefer· tra.ilenthat we had. ~ . J..J'oods: You dE).n't re~caJ.-1 .their na~~? '1, Buhner: Yes. The Kentucky Manufacturing C~mpany •. The.Y; are still ~voods: in business toda,y. vr---·~ ~--l-- >GJ) ~ The Kentucky trailer: .. Buhner: .. . ~hey!re still in bv.siness·today. That's primarily the history as +'ar as the operation North of the River is concerned. vloods: Then you extended on South? : + ' J o/ . 1 Buhn'e r: Then the next eip_~ion~- that 'le had, We sta7eu.: ~1ovinr-: Sou.tty. And there was a smaller truck opera.tidg :man. between Louisville and Knoxville and we bought hLs pmE;ql' ' operati~m, as r reca.i~'it was a three'truck operation. Anrl we then started operating into the Southern territory. At that time there were no restrictive laws in Kentucky,. {- but shortly after we started the railro·~d interests, who . '>I·'">. __ were very po'rerful in the legislature, they .forced some (~ . ' bills through the legislature and cut o-qr gross weight do~m to'eighteen thousand pounds. As we·operated under tho~e conditions for quite a few year~. We operated tt principally with what we referred to at that time as~ 'cracker boxes.' They were· straight trucks that had a ~ 14 foot-body on them, and finaily we were able to buy S'ome trailers built by trailmobile company that were entirely aluminum. The frame, the body, ?-fld everything was aluminum. With this gross dead WE!ight,- we wer..e then able~ to haul. up to. f1 to "t) ·thousand pound pay-.aloap. on our trailers, at that time. Trailers and· tr~cks. Woods: 1-li th the Cracker boxes Ed, you had a hard time . pay1ng thedrivers, and paying the equipment, when~u "' kriel go into that a· ]it;tle: bit, a.s a compa;ny owner, how the taxes of the rhllroad lobby • . Buhner: Wel·l, tl:le princi-pal attaGJ._ in t.he way of taxa- . · .. : __ .., " tion vras to pl~ce on the books a rrdlie~e tax •. A ~ileage -~~,11- , :, .. :~-.. ~---- --~~ ~ -·-. - ' tax placed on so many· cents per· pou,n'ff"which brought your -~ : ·:- - ' ~ mileage tax up to anywhere·from 5 tot 10 cents a mile besides all the Other.taxes that you.ha.d to pay ~on. Gasol~ne taxes at:td all various taxes. " \voods: Pi ve to ten cents a mile,.· Ep. That just about :;.~\ ~-· broke 'the camels back didn't it? Now 'at noon lunch today, you mentioned something that is of very much of interest ;! to truck historians. The c·artage meh, who definitely ''Jere ·'] . with railroads. When you ran~in~o Chicago, did you run ;.;.;. into a little opposition, pot on~" .from railroads' but v --- _ ..''".;:-,_ from the cartage men in the big. ~tty·? -.~ . -., --~ .. ~- ::;;.:,;; Buhner: . Yes, we had a. very interesting tangle with the . -~-~ so called, 'cartage boys.' At least we thought it: was . . entirely the cart age boys, but no doubt they:. were backed . - -~,-~-- ·· ... ·. by other int.ere.~ts besides that. We were tolds~~t,Qat ~hen we came to Chicago ,.,i th ou·r freight out of the ci ty'";·ol bouisville, that ' we cquld come as far as the IllinoisIndiana State Line. ~ . -;· Then the cartage boys would take ove~ and they would del~ver our merchandise to the various.· people in Chic ago. And they ,,muld make pick-up and deliveries for usand.bring it to us at the State Line and .. . • .. I f . . •. .. ·~--~: ., . . . cou]r1 haul it back to Loui.Svi11e. · Tha:t wa:s an • 1:1 rrn.nve ~nen t •that l>~ould ~ dld you get around .this? How did you. cdmb?-t . -.... th:1 s? It must be rernember~d· now· for ·the bene.fi f ,o_f the 11 steners, the cartage men were all 'pot cities. They were the ra~tlroad s deliv.ery boys, you -might say. How did you keep f'rom allowing ;them to do this to · :vou? Buhner: They were, as I recall, 6 or 7 of us operators. • ~anted to take over. We were that time able to· emplQye.e a very efficient attorney and we went into;court and first ,.. - . - we got a temporary injunction and latter on the fed~ral ~ . court gave us a permanent c..· ' injunction becaMse the thing that\ ~ . - 1 .. . . lare. that 1930-the '!0-rst ,, / . . rlr>p.rl'lssior; that A'm~r-i~rin ht:tt1rw .in a full 'svTing. I believe it hit .it's lowest· r?hb. 1n 19~~. but neverthe~·ess in 1.930 i~i~ap pretty heavy; .T t A. rrec te-d everytbing. Now, you m,entioned earlier how -- the 1ess-than-l.oad; the ... iv'e tons of fertilizer delivered to· the "a.rmer in a hurry 'ias·service out of this world andthe:v wanted j t. Did you have trouble soliciting consign.- ' ' ments f'ro'n here to Chicago,. or di_d your brother have trouble soliciting? ,. ' Wis this new syst~m being recognized? • Were yo~ ~u~fering ~he depres~icin a~ a new trucker the same as other business? ;~ost of the men that I call'ed on personally and the farms th~t ) called on personally were glad to have ' this truck service betll-r_een the ti,ro cities because they ' had their orders quite restricted too in those days· and 4'' • , • they were buying less quani ties ·al;ld ~hipptng less' quan- . . . ~ . }:ities. So'-it was a pe;r,!'ect .ou~ fo~·th,em ap_the.time and,: "it helped tremendously in solic~ ting o~sine~s. At the ~ ' ~ F . }q;; .. . "- ' time we hauled at rates comparable 'to ra11~6~~~'~·r~t~~, ~xcep~~~z_;;~;. that itJe made the free picktfp and delivery-." ~Wb~-Te"l the rai}.- y . • road-s were still charging their station to. statipn ra:t~c,:. ~: ~" ·"' . and then their cartage {ch~nges were beyond that yet. . \ Furthermore, we were ruhning from Louisville to. Chicago overnight and railroads ~or tne L ·c L, that's less than -, \ - ll).hner ~.: ·:;: ~ .· r,(. ~,· '. ··l; . . ;-f;_ ~; -_ , .;r- ~~:t~fa~ quani ties, would probab~~ ta'f/ them at,~.e~st ~ . ;tft,·e,r:; or more. So we were o Pfer_ing tM."o. things:' we were ~-, ;.~t~:i;:/-'i;~· , 1 ) • 't ~~ • --~~ " '-. I ~ • .• : ) . :QJ'f·~ring cheaper, transportation, and;. much quicker trans- - :{.~-: ,. ~-;~-~:-~-- .~ . ~ ~ ~ .· .:.~,~~E~~ t ion . -~ ·. · ·?~tt~&~ds: W;ll, it/ :as often been sai~ that trucking is,a -~-.. :it::-{:~~~r- ~- ~ ~· , ·; .. T b?f-oroduct; the great Al'l\erlcar Truqk}ng Interstat,e System, . . ·- ·::-. '~ .-· . . ; ~ . "" ~ - . j (- - ~- -~ . ' h'bt cartage, is· a by-product o·:- t}fe ·depression.'. That if~- ,~- .- ~-~- . the depressiOJl,·hadn 1 t. of come along th~h-~·Ur we're . ' ~ ,. ~€tting up there to where something had to be done in the way. of legislation and· I know• that yow played a very . . t • . impo•'rtant role' and I know it Is a. very interesting story' - 'll• ' . so I'm going to enter this subject by asking you that when I ~ it was decided that something haq to be done, ari~ how ~ come that you -~r. ~d Buhr'l~!'J~en~~Q!he legi~:l..?-~ure instead ,of someone else? - '' How come·'it was you that got into . ' ·" the heat of things in the Jndiana leg.islature? Buhner: 'lell 'lhen, w~ sort of got· into gen·eral. operation between the two cities we th~u~t we had ,a ~retty good future ahead Of .US because trucking was beihg pretty well . ' accepted by customers so -t;;he manufacturing business ·--was .. not only cfn 'the· too much up and up because on the account .. ~. . 1 .. --~ . ~ • ,. ; : r. r"' I l.fl'.'f· r·wJ\Wil rri0n0:v to ·huy a lot -· . 14' 'lfl )IJ'' h1lnH•nsn, About this time U1r> trtwl10p0 [\ /:1 000 str.onp: truck organiza-,t:tori t.o look ·arte.r our n '' f'al rr;, and :\ t wa.s f'i rs.t 3 or lJ years ·that we oper.:. . . - atorG had to do the WOrk OUrSelv.es·' as OU!' ass·aciation:. . .. rJ1 on I 1.J })(We enOU{)'h tnOney; tO hire Va!':i.OUS peopJ.e • . • . ! .,. who was with the bunch ·rhat H'as when·? About 1932? . . .. ~ . . . . . . · ... , Buhnnr : . . ...,:;;;;. ~~ lY'as t4r. by the namE(of -~ . -~,.,;> .• we 11 blank.e~ted the Piiiddle , part of" the·. ;st!lte / ...... .. - ~ \ - ----.- ~- ,-'' ;~~~x'·:·. - '\ : . >- ~\ p- 't:he area from Louisville that area. Mer~e Denny just . ~ ~ .· How do. you spell his ' Buhner: -~ D-E-N-N-Y. Merle T}'fe three of us then organi:z6,d hired Mr.- Sa:m HaCldEm, to qn; years later; Mr. Sam "" .. ; Indiana Highway Commis~:;ion. Mr.~- Hadden most of his time on highway "mrk.: -.-. 0 ~ A year or so before that the Ind:iana L~gislature -~ ,!Jd1f.Ced the weight limits on trucks .. ·. after we had started in business,- 'i;,';.= ~ ::w with 'battles begi'n. ·:..' - ,• J". - '· --~-. --~' -Buhner! - , tax and 1 0'~- - Woods: You might say if this was ~ he would· say it was 'the pincer system. , Uuhner: You see Indiana is the principal state beb..reen the East and the .West. -..... Indiana you got; number 20 . .; ''~hich was Transcontinental; --: -- -t . -~ ,You ·' number 30, which was Transcontinental. _ ivoods: The old Buhner: and t'hen operated_ Vincennes, Coast. ·So Indiana Therefore, ~;ft wa·s. ·a us •. · Woods: .6 in Coast. had .( ·-,, J~uhner, Buhner: · Yes, that ro'ad was . "'- Woods: Now Route out, was the first g~vernment ro ~altimore back after West. It terminated at St. Louis. Buhner: That 's right • Woods: So, they were buildi-ng up . . ~ Now, they brought in·; lobbyist representing all 3uhner: . - - . - -. - were bumping into them everytime-we turned around. : .. - ~ .. Woods: the back ground. We knbw - - - - why it's such a hot potato. And formed and your/ side~ there,· Ed. Buhner: .·· The opposition of would. put. fiv-e ce~t_s a mile' the maximum -pay-loa? of ahou.t ten tor1s:. •· lvoods: Ed? Tucker, v;P;.t !'D r·ar at> "rom South -,end - he had to run intQ Chicago l (> ~!fitJt so ra.r as to "ind out how much it cost per mile ''rw a cone rete base, and he f'igured qut that in so many :·1umhr-> r o '' years, I think it was eight years" or so that 1·1e roulrl build his own road from South Bend to Chicago.,.·. ~.Jar; this .ever brouf"nt out by you fellows that you could hld 1 d vou r own road? 1luhne r: \ve J 1, naturally, "'e talked over every angle that we coulrl possib'ly think of, but that 'las a terri fie fight. That was one or the toughest fights that we've ever been in. At least I have ever been in. They introduced the bill j nto the Hou·se and it went through there so fast we hardly kne,.., what had happened. So we re·ally had the job or stopping the bill in the~Senate. Hoods: Do you recall the State Rep::-esentative in.the lower House who.may have sponsored the bill? Buhner: No I do not. I don't know. It''s on record somewhere, but I don't remember that parf. 1-'loods: Was Gus S·lenker still a State Representative at that time? Buhner: He was a Senator, at that time. And I've even forgot ,..,ho was Governor at that time. But the Lt. Governor{ he was from Salem, Indiana, and he wasi~fa Republican and he was quite well kno"t..rn to us, and quite a number of-the Senators were pretty, well known to us. The bill mov~d right along in the Senate and finally came up ,for final :uhner -;;, tryin~ to muster all the votes we possibly' could get, to de ~;1oreran., 'rho was chairman of the Republican party 1n the State of' Indiana; he operated the Horgan ·'Packing Company, a very large packer of tomatoes and various farm products, and they at that time had also adopted trucking as a means of helping them in their sales. They had a pretty good bunch of trucks. Good trucks too. Yly conn~ctions with him were such that I could very cea~ talk to him because he had beeo a g~od customer of ours ) in the manui'acturing busineS's. Pact he was almost a neigh- • bor of ours, only about 20 miles away. We had other things in common. So he took it tlpon himself to see what he could do. And finally he came up with the answe.r there were six votes, who were prohibitionists, and thei~t~·~as a possibility of getting these 6 votes to go 'our way, and if we- had =these - -~ 6 votes we would at least keep them from pa~sing the bill against us. ;iiSo quite a bit of work was being done on that '~it~-·- . and we never were too sure that we had the votes. -le had been promised that they 't•muld come our 't'lay, through,,Mr. Morf~an. Finally, it ,.,as on a Satu!day morning and the word was passed along that the truck bill would not come up. So most of the men in our opposition decided to go home. rfl1·l,d o.nd sa1d, •rome on over, we're roinp: to call down t 1 v'" 1 •111.' ·: r'. '·~nrFOXl, bP inp: the Chairman o t the Republican· party, awl the Hepublj can party being i,n control of the Senate; s0 we rrot the messarJ'(~ :·rom him. So we all proceeded to r'o har.k to the Senate and 1'1r. T'-~o:r:gan stepped up to the norl1nm and Edr-ar Fush, was the Lt. Governor; of cours.e he m~ecl hts appointment to :vir. Mor~an, as he lAJ"as in the aame .. district.' A~d all oP a sudden the Bill was called up. The Vice President called up ~he Rill. As we were -looking around the room we saw that there was a possibiiity of retting a tie vote out of -it. But there was one Senator was gone. Hadn't shown up. And somebody told us that he'd put on the, 'rollerskates.' I think that was the term they used in those days.. So'· ap_parently the opposi t1on ~ . . weren't. able to locate him anywhere, so when the. vote was ::;.- called, the roll c~ll 't'fas one vote in favor of us. We had killed the Jill. And it was that half vote that helped us. Then Mr. Gus Slenker (Senator Glenn Slenk,er ~ who 1-ras the more or les~, one of the top leaders in the Senate, ' immediately placed a/ 'Clinche:t;; vote, ' in, ahd that was gaveled through and that was the end of it, and we had '.... ,.,on our battle. We were all perspiring when that Bill was - passed. And that more or less broke the back of the oppo~, -,__:-:, ,· ' -- ···~~···.30 I ! sition prom then on out. rrom then on i~ took year& and :vears, but after .that we gradually were able to improve our position in the State oP Indiana. . . \ Woods: Hell,- not only in the State of.Ip.diana, you broke it; of course they're still fighting. I3uhner: Oh, yeah. Probably always Will be. ' Hoods: What is the old saying .•. lobbyists, bill, . ~ ~ . among 'Old or ol~ wars, never die. 1 3uhner: Yes. Woods: Well, I really want to thank you for that important phase of American Trucking. Interstate Trucking. I have recorded cartage men: Big cartage men, who, Ed, have told me that they didn't care to have this revealed, even though they were putti~g it on paper for many years, but they were told to cqntribute so many thousqnds of dollars for the Indiana Legislature for the railroad lobbyists to get to Senators to vote against it, and they said there was thousands of dollars spent under the table t~ere. As there is in many things. Right nowwe gqtta scandal like,this going on a Presidental standard, but I mean this is well lmown among lobbyists but even with all of that this back door, old delayed tactics that lobbyists use so often and legislators of 'tvell, ·'lets all go home .. boys.'· And they don It go home. They go hide and then they -come back and . stop the clock,. I mean by stopping the clock is stop the ·-clock. on the wall so that it doesn't strike midn_ight; it's --~ ' -Jr.: ~ ~ Ed, you d j_dn' t te 11 one thing about this, - ··-·r:, t!J)tWh you v:err~, as I understand the story from other :'J)\J,~cr·~;, you anc) 1 ': ':'hr. ~·r:: \vas another i\uhncr: Sam ~31. or; s e r • Yes. The three of you were the men -v,rho definetly \ . stopped Ingiana. Buhner: ,)i t-l@ • I suppose tviaurice an'd myself and Mr. Slosser spent.-qractically our entire time in Indianapolis at the . ' time that the legislature was in session, that was close to 60 days, and \ve just stayed there. lvoods: Yeah. Now, Sam Slosser.. What. Did he have a ,. trucl:ing company? Buhner:. They vJere ·a~ They had all the.;" Not a, 'For hire,' truck. They were a private trucking company and they v.rere hauling eggs and butter and all that through and through all through the country and; they 1Afere doing that primarily i.AJi th the farmers. - He v-ras called the eggand butter man, and they were very prominent at that time through the State of Indiana. Woods: Now, at this time, I believe toe trucking industry coast to coast; interstate all, were hauling, if it was :...~ not 2% of the freight, it was a little less than 2!}6-of the ;-: ~ .. LUIDer P. l l freight in the United chunk_, and canal, steamers; and yet effort to stop you .. selves knew·_ 'That tru~l{ing Would you say that·•s true. or Buhner:. Yes. They saw the of fast deliveries man said-to~me the other mind. ·Of .. ceurse. we were people ~iked to do business or less in pers::>nal· contac~t knew most of first name~ And vloods: . ·No:w,, ciations were ... l ·.· HruJ b rokf!, an you say: ' .. Dicl ·you Jt..unp up tn vreightlat.'ls. · . L .• stop them. Did you CO)Jle oack 1 awr:. and length laws? Buhner: Well, we still.had :tn the legislature .. after that. fight becausewthey were always Then v1e had the problem of talking to 'the: Senatprs Congressmen, and Rep~ese'ntatives ·and m.ore or :less . knm,r l'lhat the business was. -;.. 1 . . Noods: Yeah, you had to educate ,them. ,. --. "~-f : -. - - there you ,iust ddh 1 t. kill keep .. there ·for ye.ars. So yo~ were :·;j}ri,: the .. years off and on. Bulmer: lve stung. th{m like a ---· ----~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~4+~4¥~~~ stung and they I'edoubled their . by that time we were able of thinking; and.the fact . ih the;i.r effort- made WOods : · \VelfL; theyi were af'ra:tu- .·,::- their small toWp. ha:d-:a railroad ~-7 ~. Buhner they might· n'ot be' there this true mi1e, in if:J33 .. with .. attack by railroads~;- did· that fi that go dowq .the drain with . . . .• . Buhner: That was tHe Bill Greyhound Bus Line . three vote. And I·. remember,. r1/a:n · Bowen; top vice pr,e~ident·s·., coming ~ . .. : ,'>if ~you 'y-e got t. .v·o~e o·r It isn't too-much is -thousand .. ·. :,,,: __ _ -, - ~ nay, politic ally, than we, were Jn that duri.ng the term3. of Paul- McNUuu-,.-o.., ... ne:rn~·t;;n~~-cl)ef(~O ' f:. ~ - - - had c:-bmplete control of 'lobs:ls: vleil, the;y ·had . . , under the/ De moe rat_s at' that . . . Buhner: Oh,- yes .. · - Woods~ Even thuugh the Democrat ' ( R:t_i.i·~d. the Sam Hay:Q.urn Bilt • . , ' Buhner :'. . . I .. i' ~ut ·we have been. . f .. - . . ~ - ·, - legislature th·o years la\ef. the~ as-ked ~s if .we. ~ ~ . . ·. - ·- .-"- ~ --?!." fi.;.-~~~· . '. ~;, ·_ - - ;tnterested in ·suggest:Lng smnebody fqr the~ .Road.s in-botri·the House- and would be very glad to they asked me Little' Joe BurJJer men got the nomination. So with those two men having the Roads Committee in -each ~ouse, our hands were strengthened a great deal. Woods:- 1nn~>r.~~n~> to Btart wtth~ .. At .. tRat r(·::tr·ict1•/e truck. ltJ~t i rli ') tlw btHJ lnen n ·and 'I ere operating ::ar;}wl l 10, 'l'ennerJsce, Ill. '!'or\n_r-!n nen, the 1~ni l.roads . ~'lent_· to' the: legisla.t~re put -1 1a-...t "'fJ-n lB,ooo lb. gross.· Which mcan't ('0(l d operate wcr~- -sntall trucks t'{ith 14 \IH' n1 ck:..named, 'Cracker-boxes. 1 And in . ~ . . . . . . wt>rP able to ()perate a small trail~r built entirely out .. of a1umJnurn to hai1dle merchandise with ·li littl·e bit great,er. ,. __ dens 1 ty·, and that . did_ not have . the w~ight· per ·'lafi, more bull{, At that particu~ar ti,ne there . znt:ion of anY. .truck as·soci&t,ion in' So \lvhon -this law wa.s· passed it w_as no opposi_tion, at operate· under these .terrific·· h%~ei:i6~ps. we r;ave .some thought of the H:tver, but·we to breaking. ~veh on. . Then as :-·. '' t- .'. - . ' .. , Buhner "· was not weight laws. And at that .time we, gra.~-.\A. Q.J.;..J;j . .-.- - ·as an industry in the - // . / them some opposition., - Ji quite a few ·years·. a law 'f . of all types'. of highway . ..,- - violations or pasl3enger ' l'le 11ere victims of this f-'lost of living off the trucking over which we ourselves l'leen Nashvil~:e, Tenne'fjse'e and neede_d a new fire department. ":. \ the Justice~. of tHe Peac·e ha~ thiEf a toll 11a:S .extracted: f'rom -aimo~t · through the to~. til~L they · h?,g:,· >lli! ' . up aga-inst. . Mariy times in heading evening point f::rJOUgh he WO. (;(] h:tB dUG-S. There v1as quite a.· ~acket J we v1ere approached on tne th:r:ough if ·you' 11 put those things.- We had time we paid a very exorbitant . ,- ·- So it was rea~ly.a treacherous.;~ isn't the right word •. It was really-an ordetil tb ,:.,- look bacl· ,. - • l Senators that had· represented the ·railro:ad.S.-' six were defeated. legislature. We So then. we were. in' the: In low down State of KentucK:y; becausethe claiming this.and ·that • we had i.t had ~"-· reason t f'"3'W• r•nt}IPf' pr;rfJO'"'tf1 t , J.• .,/ I •, .,/ .' • 1 1 ~ 7'· r~: F 1 •!nP r t ~~ r' rnport and I stt 11 . ~ ' . 1 flntu,..1t , there Vtere some recall I was the ~nly, ·1For operation there. Now,· some the Motor mar:ae;e_r 1n Little Rock, Arkansas;.- my ~s-sistaljt i ·was} a .;; · ~fel.low by the name of, Eles· Lot?-gani9ker. state 'Commerce Commissioner. been a pract~.cal . truck operator. way, one of' the O'Neill boys was.th13re. you about: o'Neill :boy. He then there was a .fellow by the name Edmond Brady was an ,-A:ttorn·ey out .of: sented a lot Course all. · What. wottid- be.· one and. -. - ' . ·-~ . - . would be a. two,; ton t:n.Uck to ~ .. . .e.~·-ea.pkC!~:ty; .. ' ~ . -- . - - - "-,.~ . pf/a~ ' -. ' -· Buhner the "'eight that -. . - ~ . truck op~rator b:y,th~ name· . > of tank tru9k ope.rations. men on his sta.ff: '· conferenc~ . . . - of a truck by i-i:;he tire carrying ·capadity ,th.a,t: the . • ,• I -- f • !: .. , • ·-; .. had. Translating this. mean t~that:·~~-,~that till\k. th~:}&e>E1 popular tire ·on a transport truck wa9;;=a,; ten·.=:h'(l,t}dred .by\ twenty, (10~20), which .had a· capacity bf'4000 po~ds.::· So, when you had a trailer pounds. s-o when you ha(j -~ four tires, capacity. of L~s~qoo pounds. not have duals of,l:, sp~ actually approxiametly 4o,ooo po~nd~. - l ;-' . minimum of 40,000 gr_pss pounds .• ·· ·, . . That mean't.t.hat Virginia, r;rexas, . ...;,. " ... · .'After ·we .h~d ~0.(4;f'.~~tedl: ·~-quite • -: . - '. : -· :t -· ~-- . '-. : ' · · ...... -had been· .: .-~~') ----~ ll3,tJ Oll fl.(',llinnt ·.the truckingthP l (' fYJ nl flt :t ve 130 B rvi.on and·. 'yre . . . ; . to try [;l.nd defeat . about the brtdges bclng - ·J . to carry the loads, ang ~ Stevens, . the prepared the te.port .fo:t: railroads had sa:ld; and there 'i'ras~ the entire report. His name meant a great deaf,; .and it was accepted by the legislature. Then· \1hen the . .rail,;roa.d lobbyist', ap~~~~~tly an old who hadn't kept up, made a lot that time, the Chair.man of the and Refining Company, industrialists in.the interested-in Federal of \vor¥ for us. He . . said, I.Tbis morning L & N Hailroad, ·and r • ~ anything. the; opposi·t-+on ti?-;rew was finally brought' do~m, . . >-j-~ . . . ····-··saw what t>te l;lad ' . - . : - . . . -l. . ' ; Buhner L All of a sudden they 'al.l ~bec'ame • ··. . . . friends of ours. rA.nct we then ·pa.. we prop~sed ~t the time witJi an ove .··"·l .... ~:.-... " ....... Later on, one story of this time the L & N Railroad had fight in e-ighty years.· 'And ~ :. have been able to find 0ut that was trhe-. . - ~ time we b~oke the b~dks of tu.re in Kentucky, and it has stayed •. 'l. The State of Kentucky.has proe.tpered ~I . ' lifting of/the-truck laws. getting nice indust!ies. industry. industrie.s - . ·. . . ; . f . -Downstate. back- hauls.. . It :rs one of the .. yille the ; city it i's today. ·I . - . 'nl;r; ·has .. it Buhrier on dovm and opened up . ' and . ,J nc kson, M:ltJsissippi ,. anVirlS'~t'b ~ .I I . · ~" · t . ' . . . or lenn b1ocl{;ed off· here ;tn r.-· !3uhncr: 'los. 'rhen ·shortly State then went into a 1ot of toll_roads, and opened up to good highways. ,.· When w~ ''brigina'ily . . -!· •... • - '• . .in th:' trucking bustne .. f.lS here in ·' '~-~- •. '• '.J' therec•was'n 't a- concrete high~tay, lnto 1-ouisville fromthe South, .here and there scattered Carrollton is it had a four lan~Jhighway l:iy commissioner's home. · - ;.J - Woods: Buhner: .Well, yes; WoQds :--.. That'~ -li_ke _ tney opened up of his home. . .-. . . . -three cl~s~s And i. . ' Buhner gross. But would be very da~agipg,- but It' s pro~ing the gradual we cities then .came.· in • connnuni t~.es . . Woods! ·'Ed ~. ' . so t•m· goi'\lg Buhner:. Alrigh~; now, go ' .. . - Woods: trailer tPucks; ~ hundred· . . ... { ~ . the high~ay$,~::W:hich. seems - 1 . • ,• ..; ' • ~ • • . . think this. 11. ' L ~ when the~ we-r~e jilst ' · . - -:~ i.-:. -- in. ·So I loads·in . ,like me, i . .· \ .. I ' . .. ' • . ' d}.li1 'I' . "'. 1 t 1,. 111 hnvc" no :tJtJv(•rn~~ " '~e were expecting from you at all. ' And I sa~d, • • l - ~ 1 I thin){ you are trying to throw us backwards nO'I that we've • gained quite a bit. We don't like it. I'll tell you that ri~ht now. We don't like this. But, ~what we're going to . do about it, I don.'t know. ' . So he said, 'laJ'ell, why don 1-t you wait until after lD.nch and come back and see me again. .. • This afternoon in the executivs= office? 1 So we took off for lunch and talked about it at quite. length aniil one or two operators were \villing to com:promise and accept the Btll, and myself and a couple of others, we said; 1No, if they ever put this mileage tax on us 'we 1 11 have to .live with. :Lt• for years. '~ Some other boys said, ''·Well, we' 11 liy~ with ' . . I said~·- · ·. .·· ' it for a year or two ~;md we can kill it,again.' I • l; 1You don't kill tax ~ills very easily.' So., il'i: the_ meantime, ' ' just about lunch hour, \ve .. called over. That 1 s when Virg~nia \•ras ahead of us. '>le were Easte~e:ove~ there.' ~ '· on Central T:i:me·and they were oi1 ' , .... -~ ·' W.e call'ed, pyer there to fincf· out ... -, I •-'i: Euhne:r -=-· - .. •LofThen they kho~ked that' ratr-: dO\vn vie had to do a lot of scrambling and rE:wrganizinv, ancl everything else to exist l'lith the new law. So_; w,e ·lost that·'hattle, RJ1d Of COUrSe We had nOthing to say ab'out that. That was just a means that they had of stricking back . at us. but, we did break their necks. Their backa. ·As f~r ,, as taxation. Vl.oods: You d'on 't have· to be so polite. ( laugh,ter by Euhner and Hoods) Buhner: I guess so. Woods: Did you j.n time have_counter measures? Where you operate under those type of rates. vloods: Well, you know, the opposi tidn sometimes have.' t6 have a Buhner: Oh, Yeah. You can't win them all. ' Woods: ~he mop flops that way o~~e in a while too. I wouldI' ;eft. -- say in legislative battles of t\ruc'K vs' railroad, in. theoverall picture' it has been high in the percenta~e of, trucking, because it was· inevitable. ~-- .~ Buhner: Yesout four years after Kentucky. Now, we've got a p·retty decent situation with the Nor~th / South traffic except in the South at the present time they are not permitted to run double trailers. Like that you · can in the CFA and that. Where they run two trailers instead of one big long box. 45 foot traiier, and they· run two small ones, 24 and 26 foot trailers. To the best of my knowledge that's permitted in Kentucky. But it doesn't do you any good going into Nashville, or any of the big cities of the South, because you can't run them through Tennessee. You're stymied.there. And thatis about the history oZ the legislative fights between the North and the South. So, I was in on both fights. The East.and West traffic fight, and the North and South .traffic fight. Woods: Which brings a question. May I ask you, Ed? Buhne·r: Yes, sure. 'j c ., Woods: In my manuscript, 'Third Morning· Delivery,' maybe I was a little brazen, or not·taking all into consideratfon_, but you just quoted that you were in both battles; the East West, the North South. And as you owned the Sliver Fleet system, a major truck line serving North South, I mentioned ·'in rrry manuscript, 'Third Morning Delivery' that the Northern Route; meaning, not St. Louis to New York so.much as Chicago to New York and Boston. But, mainly I centered it down to '··· Buhne r . ·,-fi' - Ch.ica.go to New York, was probably one of the heavies-t traveled Routes ln Amer.ica, at that time,. ·1r t10t .the. .. ~· world as fa.r an freight goes, joining~th~ Middlewest and. I the East. Coast. Did I go· too far? Was I" correct? Was the North South bigger? ' Bulmer: Oh, no. North South was small compared to the I East West truck. Woods: And I alsq went far enough to say that. Even ' though California, you know, always. claims that tpey 1 re the first in trucking. And they'll put up some good argu- . . ments out there. They'll show you some pictures where they were running the 400 miles between Frisco and LA. Buhner: · You see, a lot of the traffic from the South that went to 1'lew York by-passed both Kentucky and Tennessee. Some of the Tennessee boys carried it as far as the West. Virginia line. West Virginia was open as far as truck rates were concerned. But then they could go Qn up that way and they still had a problem some places in Virginia. ' But none of this traffic from like Memphis and from over here ~ent through New York up through the M:td-West. lt usually went the other. In fact, after we got some of the Kentucky laws straightenea out we hauled whiskey from here to Kingsport, Tennessee, and then went up the Shenandoah ~alley, and on into New York and Washington and Baltimore •. ~· But there was not too much traffic from here dirt?ctly to ... New York. We tried that operation ourselves for a couple ... " ··~ ·~hne'r . . ··(·· a ' -- •- of years but the road·s through· Pennsylv.ania ~ere Woods: Well, you had to come up thrdugli that Southern ' . 'Route. I believe what made the Northern Route such Et b~g major Route was that Waterlevel Route through the Northern Route. Through. We'd run up through. "As long as we ........... stayed near the lakes we .were on level grounds. And then when we left the lakes at Buffaio and Rochester:, we cut / over~d.went down the water level route~ you might say the Mohawk Valley, which kept us smooth, and then we had the hills from then on, but we had by-passed Pennsylvania, " lwnich was a severe state. Well, we're doing very well ; here, you·want to move on·to that next item ·on the list there? Buhner: Well, the next item goes back to· the days of the Blue Eagle. Woods: Let the· listener know what the Blue Eagle was. That's the first time it's been br~ught up on· tape~ ~­ Buhner: The Blue Eagle was the NatiQnal ·Recovery Act,. 1?. . . . . (Nf'A) that was passed, I think in the first.session that Franklin D. Roos-evelt was President. The ~~tional_Hecoyery. Act was to permit various industries to get together. And staOilize prices and stabilize their business. That \was sho r we had had that terrible depression and. needed something to kind of b~t the industry. S,e, they called it the National Recove~y Act, and the insig~ia w~s~ - an eagl-e in blue. And that's ).rhere the name, 'Blue EJie;• I .. ·' - ' carne. ' - Woods: I kno~, I -said the first time it's been brq\lght up. Maurice Tucker, Mr. Tucker, brought that Up. lie didn't go far into it outside of just'what you ~id. ~oda.y, ~ it wouldn't seem like much to the people of today, but the Blue Eagle, or the National Recovery Act, which was '- f\ called the N~A, was a much needed thing at that time.- Buhner: It had its merits. Woods: Had its merits. Now, ~.know, FDR, took a lot of beatings over the.head, we might say, from some industries t . '- over this, but --~ Buhner:' It probably had as much· to do with organizing recall of. About that time a man by the name of Jack Dempsey, made a 'call on a quite-~ number of operators h~re and there. And I remember.the di:l,y he· came in and said that the truck·ing industry ough~ to get together and sta.~t a nati:velop.~d- Buhner· • us, and actually, Jack Dempsey·, later became an .efii_ploy:e,~r . )' of Mason-Dixon Lines~ And I suppose there 'were . sqm.e g·rq:ups , .. . .. : ... some men, from New York City and va:ribus-places th~t I'· don't recall. There were probably· some 30 of us that:. gathered. ' Woods: There was one from New Haven, wasn1 t there? Buhner:· Yes, Evert Arbor from New Haven, I recall· quite well, and several others. Al J enky from Cincinnati·, and· various others. And we al·l got in the Mayflower Hotel, . {Wasl1ington D.C.) and we ·there organized the American Highway' Freight Association, in which we elec.ted Jack Kee~h~n to be 'the first P.resident, and Ever~ Arbor, from New Ha~, Connecticut, to be the.Secretary. Woods: You were the one that nominated Jack·Keeshin. Buhner: Yes. I was the one that put Mr. Keeshiri's name in nomination. Woods: Now for the benefit. of the clist_t::ners, it may .. , __ seem foolish, but we might as well infQrm here that this ' Jack Dempsey was not the former heavy weight champion of,. thE:t' world~l This w~s another Jack Dempsey. I've heard of him before. - Buhner: That 1 s right. He was really a Tarif~ man. And his primary interests at th~ time was to publish the tariffs, which could have been a very lucrative thing. B~t, he·was.pretty much ahead of his tim~ though. He was really )~- ~. - - a very pa.pable tariff man because he held down this position ! . ' • Buhner . wi~h Manon Dixon'for qvite s6metime. # Woodo: Well what happened to the American Highway Frei{S,ht· Association? Buhner: When the • .At that particular time there"Was . . another group of principally professional truck executives, you might call them. That 1 s probably not quite the correct name, but some here and there in various states had organized some state associations, but they were primary associations within a city. A~large city instead of a·state. So when the Blue Eagle was e~~alated both organizations wanted to rep;-esent the trucking .indus.try. So, the other association 1 was not .So mudl., 1 fo~re, ' as we were. The American Highway Freight Association was primary a, 'for hire,'· organization~ We were then told very definitely by the . NRA that they w-ould only deal with. one group and they would recommend that we mer:ge and put the two companies together~ So, within a,year or so I think the·American Highway; Freight Association--had a life of only;_ i know it didn't exceed two· years. · Probably a year and a half. · ' Woods: Yeah, a year and a half,·as I understand. - . ' . -~. Buhner: That's as near as I recall. We ·then all gathered I at the Shore Hotel in Washington, and I recall very di.stinct-:-· 1vely of going to that meeting. We were operating trucks by that time at the extent~or our operation into Pit.tsburgh. And we were operating a few trucks into Pittsburgh and !·~ : had gone to Pittsburgh, and from Pittsburgh I wanted, to get Buhner """' ' Jl - .······.~ into Washington to attend t-he meeting and I found otit that my. train; would get me in to late so. ·I inquired ,about_: airplane passage. And th:i~ wa~ in the earlier days. · Woods: . You were getting modern. Buhner: .I then engaged a flight. Booked myself for a flight fro~ Pittsburgh to Washington. And it was beautiful we·ather in Pittsburgh when we left. Btit we were out of Pittsburgh a short distance when we got into heavy clouds only. And I was flying on a Ford Tri-motor plane, and I was the only passenger on the plane-. Woods: And· it flew fifteen hundred feet above the ground~ Buhner: Plane, was termed at that time as the, 'grave ' .· yard,' of the air lines. We fina~ly landed in Washington . and I remember being qu~te scared in the whole flight, ~ .. ·. because as we were flying over this cloud coverage every ' so often it ~ooked to·me like. there was salt water from the various corers of tl'!e clouds·, and we kept flying. and. flying and I thought we had overshot Washingto1...and that . we were way out over the Chesapeake Bay. But, finally, we dove through the clouds and landed in Washington, and then· · I le-arned that we were the last plane to land in Washington.· And we then had a two day storm that was a pretty s~evere storm. I got through on the skin of my teet}). on that ·deal. We~l, we then had a pretty nice group of men. I imagine we must hav:e had about 75 or 80 men. Something like that-~ attended this two, three day session and we then put the .... .. two organizations together. Ted Rogers. I don't recali if he was the President of the other association or,not. _ Jack Keeshin of course was president of·o~rs. Ted ~og~rs, ·.\ ~ - .,_ -, was more of a nutral type. He was an A&P-hauler. Contract hauler for A&P. An~ he was also a truck deale~. - I think he had a lot of car, trucks and that, ·and quite a fire-ball. We then all agreed to have Ted Rogers become the President of the American Truck Association. I was there for that organization meeting. There are not too many of us left - that attended that meeting. Chester ~oore,~is still with us. Walter Belsan, who at that time represented Wisconsin, he was elected secretary. And he ~ater became Public Relations man for the American Trucking Associations and was . ' , - retir~d ju~t a few years·· ago. Year. 40 years ago this year. That w~s 40 .years ago thfs l~ . . . • • An? that's how we got American Trucking'Associations. And that was all. on-account v • of the Blue Eagle. The Recovery Act. \ -· t Woods: Was that Chester Moore~ or· Cl)ester Mooris 7 . Buhne r: Moore. Woods: Moore. Cause I know .Chester Mooris, Y9:U know. ~ • ";- r.' -: He is gone. -Buhner: Ch~ster Moore. He later became with the Central 1' I States Motor Freight Rate and Tariff Bureau. Arid Qf course. · he was also Secretary of the Illin~is Motor Truck Associa-_ - tio~ too. : Woods: He's gone. I 1m quite sure. I think he p,assed away~ · .. Bunner Buhner: No. He's still living. I was vefY. close t·o ~ester for quite a few ·years. ~is wife, Estie, a_nd . . .. Chester, and Mrs. Buhner and mY-self v.acationed two· differ- .. ·· .ent 'years during the war days 4 when you couldn't trav:e~t to • ! - .. ~ - . . .·-"~ ~:',. ~ . : -~- . amount to any1fhing. except to a spot up in WiS . . Buhner: Well, I know very little .. about that. I know that was the vehicle that declared the. NRA unconstitutional. · ; . ;•. . " "" . •. '" Woods: Was it a law case about chickens being shipped? Buhner: Yes. Someting about the movement of chickens \ . and that and they always called it the Chicken Case. ~"\ Theres probably a record on it s~mewhere • .,. My ·m~'t i:·'--..F/ that goo~ ~hat I c.an r~member all·· of it. I.pdd t6 see old Charley Dawson walk upand: down the was a very-fine att~~ its anntlal went on record to seek F~-er~l~ ' ----- ------------ -. lation. And The passage o required at :t.~ast>a-year. Motor-Carrier Act was one of the great - '· rgil..e--stones in t e trucking industry. And it took a lot, a lot of work to to please most ~f the --~:.type. The private Bill properly presente·d .arid try __ tions in .an organization or this' · to be very careful_tl'lt:l.t I Ruhner ... - they were not regulated, and the city car.tage men, they · weren't too anxious about regulation. And of cou.rse they .. were mostly intrastate, and we had the problem where·they were interstate, and all those problems that went with. them~ I remember very distinctly in a meeting w~th a medium sized co'tiunittee with Joseph Eastman, who was regarded as one of the' very fine Interstate Commerce'Commission men, discussing the bill, and he had drawn a bill. Just a sort of a work sheet bill. And I remember when we finished with it we had made 50 corrections in this bill. Some of them were minor, but they all added up. And I remember · one that I was primarily interested in~ Not primary. It was one I took position· on, and still gl~d I did, and Mr~-­ Eastman, at the time,.~ said he b.adn't __ tnougnt of that. T43t was under the. ,~use for the Public Convenience and Necessity. -r said the way it was written, maybe we have to prove Public Convenience and Neces.cli ty every time we bpught 1 a new truck or put a new truck in the business. I remember telling tl:lat to Mr. Eastman's attention and he said, 'Yes, I can see where somebody might interpret that.' And he said, 'I know we're going to correct that.' So after that session in which we made all these corrections, we then had more meetings and went on, and the·res still few minor corrections. The pictur.e I showed you, right there. Was one of the big meetings. And as I look over . ,, . ... '' Huhner that picture now, I would say that over half·those.men have now passed away. And that was in 1:935. So that ·~ .. .-- would be in the neighborhood of 40 years.' ago.' But:· the Interstate Commerce 'commission Act has kept 011. · It's J been a terrific boom to this industry and has made the indus try as big as it is today~ It's been very interest- i ing to come up under that, and it's been a lot of headaches under it, and a lot of disappointments under it. Woods: Well, it was definitely a needed thing. You mentioned one thing today that many listeners would never ., ever dream of. That is trucking companies themselves· going into the manufacture of trucks to haul or pull their own trailers. There were three we mentioned. I believe one· was Horton down here in the South, wasn't it? ~d, one was Gotferdson, that founded Transamerican, did he not? And then LeLand James, C~lidated Freightways. Do you. know of any other trucks manufactured by truck companies? Buhner: No, I don't~ But in the case of Gotferdson, ,. _ , - . ~ was a truck manufacturer as r·understand ,it and then went ·• ,·, into the trucking business.' LeLand James· and ';Consolidated . - ' -. Freightways, they ·were· in the trucking business and then they decided to make some.of their own trucks. And I think that same situation was with Horton too. Horton , was in the trucking business, and I do know that Horton made quite a few of their own trailers. And they then made some of their power equipment. And I think later ·on} Buhner when they merged and ~came Associated, Transport that ~hey dropped that manufacture of trucks. And the only one th~bhas really stayed in it is Consolidated Freightways. ,And they of course today have probably the leading freight truck in the country. . Woods: We see it on the road today. White Freightliner •. But the White people has the agericy to sell it. Buhner: Yes. The trucking company itself. White Freightliner Corporation is owned by Consolidated Freightway. The distribution of White Freightliner is held nationally by the White Motor Truck Company. Their own act is distributors. .. Woods: If you don't mind Ed, lets stress a little bit on these power units. I know you had quite a bit of experience on buying and using them, an~finding out their weaknesses and their good points. You mentioned today at lunch the Autocar. You liked that truck quite well. Where was that truck_made? . Buhner: It was made in Allentown, Pennsylvania. No. ~t was made in a suburb.of Philadelphia. A suburb of Phi~ad~lphia. Woods: It's not necessary to-have the exact place. It just came out of Philadelphia you might say. Buhner: It was asturdy truck. Had a very sturdy frame and was built primary for mountain .run. It was built for _ that Bast-ern traffic through the Pennsylvania, and :in through Buhner there, and worked very well downthtough Virginia, and Went Virginia, and down into the S~outh in th~ Carolinas. Prtmary in the.mounta.in country. It was a. very, very ' .Y' --. ·~ sturdy truck. It would take the curves a. little bit better, and ,just a good strong truck. It was not a. speed truck. 'I'he engine. If you were foi' long ·distant running the 'e·ngine'' was just not the best. :Jt~-- But for pul:ll~hg grades and all that it was very good. Woods: Now, that truck went by the wayside. It began to get into financial trouble and I believe White Motor Company. ' \ Buhner: White. And they are still making the truck. They l still make that truck. Woods: Still make the truck. Buhner: We bought most of our Autocars out of Cleveland • .. ~~ •. j We had quite a'f~ of 'em. Woods: Now lJrig ago Horton went j{s way. the Gotferdson, went 1 ts way. The ' ,;t' 1." The Brown went their way. The old · ~-, ' .. , Stewarts, .-and do you remember one I 1m su-re the, Fran-Ward-\ / - / LaFrance? Fran-Ward, they used tocall it? " Buhner: Yes, I remember the name. I associated it primary t· c with fire engines. Woods: Yes; yes. I once wrote where it left the highway and sits by the roadside all polished in the firestations and look~,out at·the roads where it useq to write its history. Now, many people today go into .fire stations, these young ·~ ~ '• Buhner youngsters in truck clubs and they see th~ FWD, meaning, front wheel drive, and they say; 'Oh, there is a Fran-Ward·.· LaFrance. But I haven't seen one since back in the thi~ties. Buhner: It is doubtful if they are being manufactured. There were quite a number of trucks built up through the state of Michigan. Quite a number of trucks up in there. Some of the·old truck operators. You mentioned John· . ' who just passed away recently. John. Up in Michigan? Woods: John Bridge. Buhner: Yeah. He was originally in truck manufacturing as I understand it. Woods: I couldn't say, he came out of Canada. Buhner: Al Boone, who operated a nice truck line through the South, hauling for A&P got his start up in Michigan in ·-;-."-. truck manufacturing. Several did. .. Woods: Well there was the 9ld Indiana. There was the Federal. The Federal was quite a truck. Buhner: The Federal was a good truck. Woods: And I 1m going to name one that you would remember~- . A lot of people argue with me. The Nash car, which today is the Ame.rican Motors, the' Nash one time turned out· a truck. And a lot of people don't know about this. ~ Buhner: Yeah, you're right. Woods: It turned out a truck back in -- my uncle owned one when I was 8, 10 years old, so that would be 1920. It was a big massive truck. Buhner Buhner: Cincinna.tti made a truck. The Bederman. vlood B: These trucks played :an important part; however; why I brought this up was to ask you one thing. We coul,d ~ go on mentioning old trucks like Corbits, Corbins, and names that no one today would ever hear of, the Brown and others, but they often say, 'Well, the truck manufacturer developed the trucking industry.' Well we\can't deny that " they did a great deal, but the other argument is, well did the truck manufacturer develope or did the guy behind the ---\ wheel hollering and screaming about the weaknesses of the truck, was he the-guy responsible for the truck manufacturers making a better truck? ~n other words the man that drove the truck found the weaknesses and it was he more than the truck manufacturer that complained until the truck manufacturer developed what he wanted. ) Bulmer: My thinking is that the pressure came from the ~ruck ·operato·rs and the truck drive'rs, ·.who didn't have the ability to decide. Woods: Yes.. They didn 'x have the ~:tlility to decide yet they knew what they had to have. Buhner: It was the engineers of the trucking compapies that were able to more or less match their views. I remem;;. ber one of the meet:f.,ngs of the ATA, when we discussed.truck~. What the industry needed·and that and the ·financing. ·They were the days when you bought a truck, you were pretty lucky if you got two years financing. I remember,that at·; Buhner that time, GMC ,'/.who dealt, in the opinion of most of us ··. operators in an inferior truck sta~ted in the early.days they had. The smaller truck was a pretty decent one~ but ' when they come into the heavier duty trucks. member the ·President of the GMC, · truck division. And·he ked out for your side too -- F . while he· was looking out for . his men. ' f BUbnerT· Seemed to me that he was one of the few men th~t-/ ·. ·,~ ~-~ . -~;.-· was strong !e'nough to whip a l~t of these ·wild business 'agen'hs, .~ . . / r. .. l~uhn~r :~?':;:-'" ·79 . and the like. Woods: ------ ~- . ' 1lttJe rnc~parchs.'ln themselves .• ~ ~=-~ Buhner: Yeah.· The one we had here in Louisville ·c.ame ~ - ...:: -!,} out of t'he coal ~ie~ds in Ill~nois, ;~nd at ~-,}' . even made a state.ment that he was a. co:rnmunist/ He threat• , - · s~ · , ened to run •'us completely. out"•-o.t\ bysine.ss l;!nd all that. ··But .. ( . ' boy he fo.lded up when JimmY Ho.ffa . .ca~e ·in. JiiTW~Y JJ; .. f course the industry was still not properly -organized. Still with loose ends and all that. And of cours·e to organize this thing nationally was quite a task to get it done. So"~ Ted Rogers, thought itwould.be well. to get somebody to do sort o.f. an engineering ,job for us. And they were talking about b~inging some outs.ide people in and . .I think they d~d one'' time ·.b;ring in a small·· -~ ·engineering crowd. An;d they ca.nie,·in and presented the en;;. ·-- .-- gineering report to. ~;r. Roger~~ I never did·· see. it,. ;Appa- · rently wa~n·'t to hi,s l:J,.king and same of-the other men around him. So theh it. was suggesteP. ;:that'• .the industry put. up " . . . -~ :.. ·~ ·'. - --- ,· . ·- : v· the:ir 0.m colnillittee,· to go through the, ent~re_ ·structure of . ATA and com~··up.wi·th sortof-,ab;ibl~. That was Clone an~ I· . ' ~ . ; ' \ ·~ .. was ei'ected~ Chairmrk of that committee. We the11 held hearin~s · . . .. --~ Buhner over a·period of two years and I suppose we had ove.r·two to three hundred people appeared before·· us and gave us all the v1ew's and everything else. This.committee had a big long sounding name; National I've forgotten the whole thing but for short they always·refer to it as the, 1Buhner Committee Report.' Which is the bible of ATA. Sti~l the bible. They've been no chances. And the thing we did t~en when we organized. We said eve~y state should .only have one association,. There were several. All these association~.springing.up. And.this and that springing up. Should only have one association. An. d they were at ' .. . ~ ~. ,.· that time three states that had more than one association:· N·ew Yo_rk, Illinois, and California. And we suggested that they try to work themselves down and get to be one unit. And then we set jp a lot of criteria and various things. And· then we ~rganize.d ... the . I various branches of the trucking industry iike the: common I . , . . . ~ . . . . . .•. . . ; carriers, irregular common c~rrrers, cartage men, tank ; .# ; . I truc~ carriers, household go~d carri~rs, f~:fm carriers, and i . f; contract carriers an.d 'what have you~ I think there are. nol'f e'J:.even. Eleven branches. And· each one of those are part · -~ .~ f of the .. ATA, and they have arrangements where if they. - c·onflict ·with. 'each other they sit down and try to' work : 't ~-~ out their prob:iems_,together. They show this report. We tackled everything except the dues structure. And we set" .>-~ up all the efforts with them. ~ .. i • . . • .; • I - Buhner 82 And we then set up the presidency would only serve one~;.ye~~,--~- .·If and from that he would become chairman or· the board. 'That····.~ . . , job; however, was done after ODT had served .. its puz::pose. And, of course, that was another big probl_em that the ATA had was during the Office of Defense Transportation days. ~ And I served, as I told you earlier, Chief of the', t.For Hire,' section. And we at that time had about two'million, 'for hire,' trucks in the United States~ And one of the. f' problems we had, w:e !}?.ad no statistics, to go by._ The· only '· thing we· had was wb,at was publi.sh~d by the Americ~ Auio.: ' mobi~e A~sociation.· They had certain statistics. N6t much. So to find our way among all the organized industries we had to do a lot of talking. Just to have. So. I was-brought into Washington, and I stayed there seven months. And during the 7 months we formulated the rules. ~- . and regulations for, 'for hire, ' t·ruckers. And ·one of the,problems, of course~ that :we.had at the time was fuel, and tires. And you'pr.obably remember. the tires when you,-- I . . - ' ' the rubber situati?n, whe~ you ~0, to retread a truck tire, wh;Y if it ·las'teq three tho.usand miles you were· doing pre~ty good. So we ... fought 6ur way all the way through that. ~ ' -1" - - • • ' ~"f I Then there.wa.s a very .big" attempt made to take the trucks e ' off of any distance oeyonQ. a.. hundred 'miles. K:eep all trucks· ~- . . ..• .. within a hundred miles and turn all the rest of the. freigbt' ., over to the rails. ~ .'"··;,. l". #: ' ' ·, . ~, ~ ·~· We· l'Iad t)lat big problem on our hands, ,: ~ -r and we of co~rse, whipped .that. ~· ·lj, 1. Buhner On the fuel consumption I remember that the Offi~e of frice Administration, who rationed gasolene for automobiles. \ They said, •We're going to ration gasf>l~ne for the trticks. 1 We said, •Well, you can't do that. You don't koow anything about trucking,' and I said, 1A lot of the trucks are going to have to consume more gas ~f we're gon11a win this war. We're going to have to haul a l-ot more ·stuff than we're doing now. We've got to have gas to rlo the job and all that.' So, I remember very distinctly ~hen ~hey announced that they were going ·to tak~ over, we went ~p to Mr. ~astman, and told him what we'd been told. That ·\hey were taking over the gasolene rationing. I saw his face get red. And he said, 1No. They're not going to do it." And this was around the middle of the afternoon. He said, 'You boys be here this evening. Meaning the President. I 1m going over and see .·the ol~ man.• · He said, 'l 1m going over. t.' ~ ,:.,e .. went over and in about three hourf? he cameback and he . . ·~: said, 1We 1 re going to ration the gasolene for trucks.• So_, that job was thrown on -.to us. And of course there were a lot of factors in there that wanted to just cut 35 per .r \ ... - -F ..... ____ . ·J.'$- ,. :~cent off our gasolene consumption·. Arid so we fought tha~. ~We said, 1No, no, no. No large slice like that. at. all •. .. We'll put in regulations that'll force the boys to·do aws.y ... with a lot of the. practices that consume ~ lot of gasol~~~,·c Now, sbm~ of these trucks are goirig to use niore.' r . Buhner So when the whole thing was over with at·the end of the year, when we made the calculations, we had reducedthe • ~ f • I consu.rnption of gasol~ne among the truck boys by 38 per cent •. We had even beaten .this. And we.did it by elimina~ ting a lot of the bad practices that had gone into the industry like security; a lot of these boys were hauling some o~ this freight a hundred miles out of the way and all things like t.hat. And we told~them they eou1dn 1t leave the terminal unless they were one hundred per cent loaded, and seventy five per cent loaded on the way back., They had to put the loads on the trucks or they l'rouldn 't -~ .\ . g~t the gasolene. Course-we had rationing of gasolfitne · and -we had that leverage on them. . And that's how we were able to do it. . And that stayed pretty well. We haC. a few other minor ones, but those were the main th~ngs.we did in those days , . . and made it. We wrote the regulations s'o the truck boys~- . · We figured that"- if they could make money why they 1 ed be glad to comply with it. If they c·ouldn 't of c,ourse compe- " t:I:tion ·wasn't muc·h .in t}1ose days. You could (Set . all the· business you wanteq anyhow. As long as they could make money on what they were doing they were glad to comply with thee regulations. - ' '0 ~ - , -~--. =:·~~( ~ sold ~he· diesel engines. and then said tha_t. we would nqt g3· ---:';: back· into the· ·dlesel ?perations. until. the ~~omp+e-te. tru6'1c · ' ' > .~ .. ' .. . . , . . .. . ' ,; ·-t 93. - . . ·or ~1~ y~ars later. • , , I t _ ':' · ·wo~ds':· -· .. M;)~#Buhner, . . ' ~ . - ~ fo_r hi,story sake' lets tie· down some - . - • '"" \ ~~ -t""" - - ... ·of. tl)ese dates a.nq as to: why the' ditesel~ No'!'l; ·on' ~he ~ - . . 'r ~'est 'Coa.~t-? .you me~tione.d td me ea:r;li~r that __ tbf diQe~el fl ' • " • • .. was pion'eered on the· West Coast more than in the Middlew.est ' • ~ c. s.impl·y pecause they cou.ld 'hi:LUl bigger loads ou.t .there. · I • \ • • .t.· . Heavier loads, .. and the· dies~l nas he.ld down a.-' little ~ore. BuhDer: ;;; Th~·y had the power for .the m..ountains. ~ • · , __ . . . · Wo~ds :~a~··. . -there ,probubly Now I imagine, they-entered the p;cture out in,the e~rly thirties, or maytl~ late twenties • : Tile' d-ie s:e 1 had been known fof.· a long time. ~ 1 # It haq been ·· inven~ed· years before. rt was just put into us-e. So, . -•would you say thp.t "'·probably in· the l~te twenties 'the diesel . ..... w~nt' to work pn ~he ~est Coast; .was introduced out there. . ., . . ~ l Buhner: -. ,leah~ ·I .would say that. A f~irJ.y accurate pate. J ~ ~ ' -~ . Woods: Yeah. .And then, as you say ydu were- raised{ within \ • , -'f . ·shQtlting distance, for the listener'.s :i,nformation. the ~ .di~l- was made at Gol~bus,' ·I~di~a, (Cimnnin's -Dies~·l) . ·' qui t_e a little industria~ area, and of course Indiana was .... always the le~der i~· the automotive world in case people don't know. 'lt turned out more ca:rs actually than the great stat( of Michigan did. ·Butj now you purchased a.n"d~ put these- ., r ; ·• " d;teseHr into ·-qse ma!nly pecause of your friendship witb . ..,. Cummin's plant, isn't that right? The people that· :r:~the Cummins. ~ ;:....:....,..;;,;_ .. "· ·. , .. Buhner Buhner: Well, "' we hfld 'a frfendship with them. _ - ' . ·- --· Wood's: That had a bearing on it,· becau1;e you :introduced the diesel and one of t)le very first to introduce the diesel'. Your company. Antl as you~say this was probably in-~be ·ear,ly 30s, wasn't it? About 31, 32? A.--l Buhner: Yes, it was, because w~ installed them in.the first two trucks that we owned. Woods: So,~ ¥OU w~re really the.pioneer irr the middlewest. Buhn.er: It must have been ao0ut 32. ' Woods: ' . But, you discovered that because of its extreme power the torque of the engine tore up -the tr~smissions . and tb~ ·deferentials· and you had to have mpre weight and ... the state of Indiana, a~.that time, certainly didn't allow much w~ight, so that. was why you had to discontinue and go b~~k.to the combustion engine. ~ ~' " Buhner: . ~ Another reason wa~ that 'f;h.e four cylinder diesel . . had entire1y too much vibration, for the chassis it was being run in·. Woods: they .w went through all this work anq reorgan:Lzed our eompany on .... a very sound safety basis, why we were able to bring our · insurance rate·s way down. In fact before we got out 'of the business we were self.insured for a great many of our own loses, and we had set ·up our own. claim system~.· We .handled. our own claims and all that and it. was qu.i 1;e,>'renumeratiye./ · too. t . -!. ~ . ,.. I ' :/. The America.rj Trucking Associations~ about that time,· ma~e,: / quite a -drive on safety a·s t_hey have Aorte :every sinc.e · th~n. One of the side lights to this who+e affair i·s .si'nce I had· ( . • I ~ • spearheaded the 'safety movement a. g'reat deal;. the inuustry still didn't-have any aonnection,)'lith the f!ationa.1 Safety l • - . - . - 7 .. . . Council, so I was elected· as the. first truck .operator to -~ . r· .. ·' ·/. '· f j- ' ! Buhner serve on-~tlie National Safety Council. I served on 1;J)~1.:r Council foz; 13 years. .. Originally, in keeping records of that the National Safety com1cil charge) an acc-ident against a truck whenever ·twt-· vehic lea, . regardless if the vehicles 'Wer~ pass.enger car or truck collided, the charge was always made against "(;he truck. So in the early days the truck had some unfavorable· - ' . ' .of.·--• publicity. Because the r~·cfords were not kept correctly.· We were able to change this thing entirely around in the National Safety Council and ~oday the t:rucking industrY" is the second largest participant in the. National Safety Council, and is one of the real industries that is pushing r safety in all its phases. Wood$: Probably you would touch upon the entrance of the Westinghouse Airbrake which had a tremendous amount of . ~ safety added to trucks once they got the Westinghouse Air-· -~ brakes. Is_n 't that right? You'd say that. airbrakes had . ':I~~ .. a lot to do with it? ~ .~:-- Buhner: . I 1m not familiar wi~h·that except,the fact that ,• when we moved into the airbrake our equipmen"(; became much . ····p··:. then forced every opera.tor to pu~in ·a real safety. ~rogr~. And.if they didn't comply wit~ th t they were not included. ~ ~ • \ .• I i.n the insurance. · And some/of t ose ins~r.ance companies ha~e made excellent ~money; and hav~ re~J~:ed the a;cident ' r·ate meterially ·for most of those oper~tors . that went into·. that. I ~~ ; This thing. was primarily started on,; -the West Coast. And some of my good personal friends wbre all involved in that plan, and since we didn't operatd on the W~st Coast of course we were not ,eligi'b:te·. But, we learned from those· • acity- of .a tr':lcJt• This was during the days of the· Office . . of Defense Transportat~on •. And I mentioned- the name. of one man, wli.o ~was a very ~~p-a.ble operator and is today. a very "~' \ ... ~ ~ . ' .. capable ~operator. And h1:s name was Charley· Canmer. · He ... , '",. . .. ; /~ was·one of the-top men in the tank truck operation, an~ J ~ \ knew the business.. He .hailed···.'from Pennsylvania. And he- was '"1 · one of the men that helped· con~iderable in-establishing ., • ·?:·~ · the rules and regulation~ ... -"\l.l'1Qer which, ~tpired trucks, '· ~ ·.-: - , ... -.. ' ~ ' ':;..'"~,.. ope.rated during the w11f~t. It 1 s ... our .group that .developed. the ;..f· .-:-: .· ~ . - ~,. definftion of ·t)le .. Ji'~pacity .d't a truck by relatin·g it to the . • .,..--. ·-:·/'-~·-:: .- F~ -:~-"' · .. ' j J. I',· .. . - . ~- Buhner -"". ~ -~--- ·~ ""~. ·~ ~ J:~;·. '· ":rse laws, an~ how they~fll. ·It's stil~ -confusing today. I hear people say, 'What do they mean; a two and ~ . a half ton truak? That things big en~ugh there to haul a house. What are they talking about a two and a half ton?• ~ .And they don't know the ratio. Buhner: Well, the next thing I probably want to talk a little bit about is the part that the Americ~ Trucking Asf;lociations.and the Truc~ing Industry p~ayed·in the -build- .. ' ing of the 21,000 IIP.les .of super-highway~ that we have today. ' . In the early days . before we had these· m~. :rour lane hi~h-' ways one of the problems that the Public-::lJelation' s platform. that the t·rucking :industry had, was. the problem of tail-ga~~ng. . ' ' Especially, if you were 'in rol.tirtg.country'where' you had . ~ . :"~,. v ~ : .. . ·. . " .( -'' ., '' 'r ::,; .;{ One of the thin~s we still haven't d-i'sd~s~~d \a-:s" ~ \ ' l •• : .; ·.' - \ r c. .~. •• '.·;~,, ,.,/. 1 • the trucking industry. Up'to that·· ti~e· ft_.h~?·£~~R ' ~{ •l L • ...;.~..... •/,, ~ ,. - ? ':" much a ho~g-poog. Evei"!body published hls ·o'Wn rates,' a.D:d where tney did business with a conne¢tfng lin~·~ma.ny tim~&- 0:: _. 'c. \ Bulmer 108 .... ·-. there· wasn't even a ~hrough rate pu)>lished~ It- was: just,. a matter' of an agree_ment with the shipper, or "something. ' _ But when the regulation came in it became necessary 4for , the industry to publish tarif.fs, and-that became a tre- . 1 mundous job.· You can hardly imagine how many rates it. would take to publish a rate from one point in ~he United Rt~te~ ,. ,to every other point in United States.· So the indus~ry was pret~y well split into regions of sections for the pu~lication nf- rates. First of course, one had to have a classification, which rt 'tlescribed the commod~ty and then more or less gave it a rating as to whether it was a first class, a second class, third, fourth, fifth,' and ·sixth class. There all, each commodity. was claE!sified. ,That also 'became a tremendous ~- . ilasi.- And there was quite a disagreement in the industry, - • . fS" .-to start w~ tn, ·as to who w;uid publ~sh the class;tfication. Finally, it was realized that there was only one logical prganization to publish the classification and that was the American Trucking.Associations because they represented all ·:typ~s of trucks. Whether they were household goots -~ ~~ (!.~rrierf?, common carriers, contract 'C"arriers, tank operators, ·and you name 1 em. So that, ~ finally were able to close · ( .! . I . t~at hole, and place ' the classifications in the hands of 'the American Trucking Associations. - Then it became the task of publishing all the rates. Q.uit'e a number or states already had had intra·state published ·->:o. .. --; -·~ Buhner ' ' 109 'r'ates, so we alre8.dy had men in ·the industry that·lqlew consi.derable about rate making and that. My~ own personai - -· - experi.ence dates back primarily to the CFA territory. \ . Central .F'reight Association territory. Which included Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, arid Ohio. At that time, I think, as I. recall, three states of this group were already publishing in~rastate tariffs. wa all gathered . ' in Chicago to try to work up an organization that would publish the interstate rates; both, within the territory and between various other .territories: the East, the South} the J, \ Rocky Mountains, and the far West. This was quite a task to get these various men in agreement c ~ on whats to be done and who wants to do it. Of course everybody was hoping their OWn state would be the domin- .. ating. factor. At the time, I personally wa:s the President of the Indiana Motor- Rate and Tariff Bureau, which was comparatively-new and I personally didn't know too much about publishing tariffs, but we finally brought the thing to a head. And Mr. Ted·. Rogers, came in from Washington to Chairman the ·overall group meeting, ~d"thrQhgh that he - appointed what was called, ·'The Colii!ld:ttee of ~leven,' and ~ · they were~the Committee· that finally organized the Central Motor Freight Bureau. They selected the men_and all that. The task of yhairman of the Commi tte·e · fell u,pon me at the '--· . ~-.. . ' ' ... ti~e. Bu~.' 1 were able t~en. to, work out and we selec~ed~, - Chester G. Moore·, of Illinois, to become the head' of that Buhner 110 > tariff bureau. Chester was a very capable person, and he had the ability to whip a lot of irregulars ~ntp line, and there were some real strong individuals too in th:i,s crowd. We then devided quite a few of the jobs .among some of the other men from the other states. I remember the man from In~iana was very much disappointe9 that he didn't get to be the top man, out we gave him, I think, the third top man. We took the best men that we felt were the best men to continue. the publication of the - tariff bureaus. And that became a very, very strong organization, and today is one of the strongest tariff bureaus in the count~y, primary on account of the Mid-West being in an area·where there was a tremendous amount of freight. My experience was primarily in rate making was with the Cent!al Freight Association territory. Although -I was much less active in establishing the tariff bureaus - in the South, and the tariff bureau, I published.the rates between the Central Motor Freight Association and the Southern Motor Freight Association. Woods: ~r. Buhner, at this point ,lets give 'em an exampl~ of how much opposition there was by, as you sa:y, 'The strong powers; that wanted to put in their own. If you don't mind:this brings us back to our old friend, Jack Keeshin. I'm sure you remember, he stepped forward all at once. Now, correct_me if I am wrong. He stepped forward, at this time, with, 'The Eleven States C~ference,' '- of-. Buhner .. 111 .. that he had organized, and h~ got ,Danny Arnstien and the Wall Street combine that controlled 48 industries. -Tney put in millions and. they we.re going to riJ.ake their own~ rates, and. make the ATA and everyone· else ·bow down to their rates whether they liked· it or not. Do you'recalf \ that incident? Buhner: Every fella heard of it. I i . . Mr; Keeshin, of cou~se ' '' being a very strong individual, he also; --- there were some others tnat were inclined to want to publish their own rates. And, as I recall, Mr. Keeshin, finally made the move to publish his own rates, but then he fmmd himself into real trouble and it didn't take him 'long to rescind that action. In the meantime it .cost him cofisiderable money to publish the rates, because thats an expensive thing. Woods: I believe it was two million dollars.they lost, or something, in trying to set up that rate. ~ Buhner: Why'other, who also-had a desire to publish their own rates, was that most all the truc:k,operators had become me~bers of the Bureau. So with that that · mean't that they were able to.publish their own rates through the bureau so they could work in connection with other tru~k lines. In other words they were able to have i·~· . ~· a through rate that was. published. So -from Louisville to Milwaukee, we hauled the freight to Chicago and turned it over another truck line· and they delivered it in Milwaul{'ee.'t "'· ... Buhner ,· But· our rate w'as a th~ough rate ·that had already been publis,hed all the way ~hrough. But, when Mr. Keeshin and others have tried it, and they were not mem'9ers of .the Bureau publication. thought th~ that we wo~ld also interch~~.with them. . . J . But, we saw that we were getting ourselves into a lot of tro~b'le; if' we do that. ~~b we did'll 1 t· give Jack Keeshin, and. others like him, any conc~rrence. So, his lipe, 11? Mr. ·Keeshin's line, and others like his, lacked the through rates.· They did not have the through ratesystein. ·They attempted it, but it was rather crude. So, it didn't take very. ~ong for those people to realize that they had better come ~n on the tariff. f Woods: ·Well, for rconvenience sake they· ha1 to disband their idea. You had the interline system worked out and they didn't. Yeah. ' Buhn.er:, woods: I believe at this point, Mr. Buhner, there might be sbme listener sometime that may .be confused with~intTa- / ., state and interstate. What Mr. Buhner is speaking of here,, or we!re speaking of, is intrastate is-shipments }'lithfn the state. And interstate means cross country. Through the diffe·rent states. So whenever you hear intr(st~te you ':1:.1 know,·"iinmediately, that that's points within the state. And. wlie.never'··you hear interstate that 1 s ·referred to as· the ·--; long~ha.Ql, or cross country. That goes Coast to Coast,· if ·, ' .. \ . ' ' ; '.., 'i. t.t\ gpoog of men trying to drive trucks and the couldnit do it efficiently, until we put in a real good, safety program. Then we had ·a/~her rigid t~st.., that any applicant would have to make before he became eligible to become a driver. During the World War days when man power..was quite scarce, and we were still growing; adding personnel to our company and also hiring-additional drivers. We sometimes had to scre~n as many as 75 men in order to find one good driver out of the group. Later on ~hen manpower became a little bit ~ore plentiful, we used to have to w~ed out- about 20. men out of about every 21 .applicants. In fact we had a · : .. "' 1; :· . :. ~y!i~· ,, .. Buhner rule of thumb we would find about one man out o.f ev_ery 25 . ··· that we considered" to pe a capable truck driver. ':But ~hen 1 you take a piece of equipment, even in those days, a J);j[e~e of equipment with a trailer, was a minimum of 25,000 dollars •. · Then it depended a gr~at deal upon the cargo that_you were ~ carrying. If you were carrying a truck load of wh~skei which we moved a lot .of here out of the city·of Louisville., . ' We quite often'had a cargo going up to 50,000 doll~rs. · .So, it was quite ~ responsibility on the truck operating company to see that they had the proper personnel tbat could handle that piece of equipment. A ·number of wrecks in those days with that type of equipment and that kind of cargo crould easily have wiped out a company. Woods: It did wipe companies. Buhner: And many of them were wiped out. Woods: Just for open discussion here, Mr. Buhner, you . knew Ben Spector very well I'm sure. Buhner: Sure. Woods: Didn-'t he,---multiple wrecks, at the end, was_ what Ben had to leave-the company for? I believe they cancelled ' - 'his insurance. He put through this fast relay system to the East Coast. Arid he just. Ben, ;y-o:u know, had- a belief that you could just take anyone and put behind a wheel. And ' . he did. And he·:rQund out that it was just constant wrecks'. ·-.::, And I 1m sure if- you paid much attention to his life, -or· ··'-~-· . - ' ' heard such, that it was this very thing that destroyed ~en. ;.. ';• .. Buhner ..,;., Buhner: I knew Ben, but I wasn't very f"amiliar with opera..tions. ·, Well, in the early days he'd just go.out on)the street corner, he'd ·have a loaded truck there, and s.top "· aj/,uy and say, 'How'ed you like 'to go to-New York?' Yeah. ·This was one of his great downfalls. But, I know he had a· constant number of w:recks· when he got .th~s: Whites and ~ . those Freuhaufs· and went on that fast relay. Just mul~iple. It was unbelievable. Four- a day, and thing like that. Well, you know, that no insurance company is gonna stand \ for that. ,. So, they cancelled him out. · Well, today, Ed, . ·· -~~Y have schools now cropping up all over the country. • "t. And this is a little different than in my day when you got b~hind a steering wheel and another guy told you how to shift, and you tore up a few gear boxes til you l~arned. But I believe don't you? That this is a good thing that they're teaching these ,.---a mari long before he goes on the highway,.they teach him how to back. a trailer. S~ot·a trailer~·~p' !)th.er words. How they ·.te~ch h:l.m the gear box,f ·• and., the tachometer. How the truck operates, and .he gets.- quite a schooling I understand •. 1: 1m ·to go interview one. I . of these schools in the next ·month •. I 1m 'suppos,ed too; But ., thats quite an advancement, and that too would come under ~he safety program. Buhner: I think one o:( the things that has done a lot to up grade the, truck driver is· the establishment of the -•. Buhner' .. Truck Rodeo, which is now being held pr~ctically.in almost -- every state association. Woods: The ATAs encouraged that, didn't they? Buh'lf3r: It was the ATA who qriginally developed it I think, but the credit goes to John Laurenc.e, who at thatf ' . time was'General Manager. He worked out the program on it, and ~he me~hod and it was he that, who really promoted the thing. It's a very interestirtg thing to the top truck drivers, and of course-that filters on down through the· entire fleet. But if you ever have a chance to go to one of.these annual championships, it's very interesting to . see how :proud these boys are. They compete in that. First I . they have to win the state and then they go to the national. This last year we had the National here in Louisviile. " And to me it is reallX a feeling of satisfaction to see what has been accomplished~ in the way of training drive·rs ~ and make them :pealize their responsibiii ties •. And th~~ - courage that they have now. The proud. It is not only the driv-er himself is proud of his posit:l,on, ·but his ;family, back in the crowd. Normally, his family is ~itting right there •. Woods: Oh, yeah. Right there in the grandstands. Buhner: And it has done a great aeal to upgrade the.driver. ;,Woods: Also, Ed, it's done a great deal to the truck ., manufact1.1re ~oo·, to have his truck in th.erer as one that . they use. For the listener we 1 d iike to explain .a Truck · R'odeo is just as·the words emphasis'. It 1 s.a Rodeo, like I . ., -I ! ' Buhner they used to have, and still do-have national cowboys, where they go out and ride broncs_and things, and what . 'they do here in a Truck Rodeo'; they bring in these drivers' I that's won tpeir championships ~n. each state as an outstanding driver. Now, they'll have different contests. r Spotting trailers. Backing trailers within a certain area. equ riving within traffic. Maneuvering of their Mr. Buhner has probably been on boards of the e Rodeos·more than I have ever seen them and he knows more ~bout their different requirements that these drivers have t show their skill. Lately"' they're being to get •rv recognition. You'll see in advertising. They had you -last years Champ • ..., I believe he was from Louisville here. They had him .spotting a tanker truck,:in a very close quarter. ·And I believe Exxon, or one of the big ga~. - companies used that on TV as an advertisement and it drew ·a great deal of attention to ,:the trucking· industry. That a man could handle one of these trucks. I know, just on this subject, Ed, if you-don't mind; you know, in California they used double bottoms long before we were around here. And it used to be quite an interesting thing to watch. They'ed always·have a driver in ~ I termina;,l. The fella that brought in the double bottom . \ on the road could never handle it right, and they always had an old spotter around the terminal that he -~would take over that double bottom and instead of breakin~ +-· .. '· Buhner 118 __ ·- :.it up and then~ JllOving the \wo trailers, he. woultt .spot ~that_ back trailer where he wante.d it while :It· was ·still hooked · "' to the 'other trailer, which was quite a feat. We used .to watch these men do this. But proper ·control :-&.ld skili' at the wheel has a. The trucking industry is vecy aware tpat . f . ~ . " / Honor. The Kentucky Industry's highest award' in recognition of his ~votion and distinquished service: to. the ,· ~ - r ,- Trucking Industry. President of the Annual Convention of the Kentucky M?tor Transport.Association, I9c.C.on"June- 5-, 1970. ' '.And the s'ea.l there,. . ·Buhner: .: .That w_a~ the tf'i.rst one that was ever granted~· ' Woods: :And he.re is the ATP.,. •Ame.ric~ Tri!~k Associati'ons Foundation,·Incorporaied, presents,th}s ·tribute of appre-. ciation of Mr. Edward J. Buhne:r, Trustee, 1953· to 1960,,. . . For service to the Industry through ~eadership of t~e . . .... continu,ing program to inform tJ;e Americim pe.ople to 'th~ · vital role ~·f trucks in the posterity, growth, d that might not seem like an awful lot of money, but in those days right after th~ depression 5 cents a·mile was a tremen- ' dous amount of money. Another thing, who tried to help us but they were too late to do much help at all was the Greyhound Bus Line. They sent one of their top Vice P~,f!;Sidents to enter into this battle and the mileage tax als~fpplied to the Bus Lines. The Bus Lines at that time, or the gentleman fro~ Gr~yhound at that time told us the taxes at that time would have run up between two and three'hundred thousand dollars a year fqr them, whi~~ey said made it almost impossible for them torun buses through the state. And of course he was highly elated after we had won, and l after that some of the boys including quite a few of\them really put on a c_elebration. Woods: Now to go in a little further so that a student or ' . Buhner a ) intencr might know, Mr. Buhner~'' your very close fr;l,end, Mr. Tucker, and I when we touched upon this subject he said that at that time With his headquarters in SouthBend -running into Chicago, he said that the ton mile tax they figured that in so many years they could build their own road from South Bend to Chicago, a distance I think of 81 miles to the border. And come out with their own road -at the time. At that day I don~ know I think it was 6000 dollars a half a mile or a_mile fo~ a one lane highway. Said they could have built their own road and they knew that.if this passed they ~ere ail out of business. And that brought me to the question I was going to ask you, should ·you men have failed and. the r.ai).road. Once more i.n bringing"up for students as to why we were in the state, this battle took place in the state of Indiana was because of it's strategic geographic location to the interstate; especially, long-haulers, leaving Iowa to go to the east coast market. Atlantic Seaboard, Providence, Gloucester, Boston, you name it, "New Britian, New Haven, New York City, and on down into Baltimore for that matter and Washington,, D.c. They would have to go through Ind:tana. Now, Mr.· Buhner, when I spoke to an early American trucker that you know very well, Mr. Pop Brady, John J. Brady, Sr~ of Fort Dodge, Iowa, recently we di·scussed this and he along with us wildcatters mentioned that we were looking for boat ---passage out of Chicago probably over to Bu;ffalo, New York / Buhner because we felt you ,might lose this battle and we couldn't go through Indiana therefore we could by pass Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania by taking a barge type boat out ~ Chicago and docking in Michigan and crossing into Buffalo and taking~ the water level route down to Albany and on into th~ East Coast. And for the student once more to show how important this was, this strategic geographic center. Indiana, as Mr. Buhner will agree, is one of the smallest states. Right. Buhner: Yes, that's right. Woods: Among these states in area, it's a small state. Yet, if the railroads could center in and stop the trucks from crossing that state to go to the East Coast they already had gone into the legislatures of Kentucky and Tennessee and they had everything very much in their favor there. If not a bill to stop, at least laws to harassf Buhner: You want to include Virginia. Woods: And Virginia. And so there they could~ topped trucks from going into the East Coast. They would have to / go down and· go through the Southern states which would have been economical -- just a loss. Yvu couldn't do .it. A matter of fact the listener must remember. that at this time .. even overloading we just barely made out going direct through ,, Indiana. Had Mr •. Buhner, Mr. Tucker, and the men he mentioned along with· the famous legisl~tor 1 Slenker, and they lo-st this, I don't believe it would ~ave destroyed trucking. Buhn~ r . wo.r. jnevltable and the war was coming up t1r: Buhner·in time pr1orlty by the government would have taken over but 1t would have certainly impeded_trucking for several ye~rs. Would it not? Buhner: No doubt about it. You see, Indlana was a---- well you mentioned·it casually but Indiana wasLalso a very important state from the standpoint of the North m.d ~ . South traffic. From Chicago and Detroit and all those . cities, cause a lot of that traffic out of Chicago came by way of Louisville, came by way C?f Evansville and by way of Cincinnati to get into the Southern States and even " -- .... ~~ into the states of we·st Virginia and all those. They were all blocked. Indiana, Kentuck,l, Tenness.ee, and V;lrginia were the keys to the railroads battle. Either by restrict- . ing the industry of weight la~s or taxing them beyond. Woods: Ton mile tax. Buhher: Tax them anywhere. Any type of a tax that would break them. Woods: They even threw in the length laws there too. Buhner: Oh, yeah. Woods: Now this brings us to another major poin~ in trucking that Mr. Buhner is very well versed on and that is how at a later date, at a time they arrived at we'll· say a gross 40,000 pound w~ight, a tractor and trailer un~t. One thing you must remember the railr-oads were very smart men, were they not Mr. Buhner? Buhner Buhner: Oh, yes. They knew all the ~rick$. ' Woods: Yeah, they had had experience in lobbying and controlling legislation since back in the days of Drew, Fisk, and Gould with the Erie and Commodore Vanderbilt of the New York Central. They.have used all kinds of tricks of not only watering stocks but of control'l:i,ng legislatures to their advantage and they applied it all here and it is quite an honor to these men 'from the middlewest, the small truckers, to rise up and defeat these men. But they were very smart because at this time in 1931 the trugking industry Mr. Buhner, was not yet hauling two per cent of the freigpt in AmerLca. In 1931 if my records are right they were.hauling one and about eight tenth per cent, almost two per cent. In 1933 ·when you defe·ated this bill we were two point plus, and yet at that time, at that day' they realized and knew that this-percentage would grow enough and may destroy themin the future. And they were smart enough way back then to put the clamps on trucking if they could. Now this brings us to the very important subject that· Istarted to speak of, we 1 11 ·ask Mr. Buhner to· tell us about ·it;· the ten twenty tire and the 40,000 pound gross weight as how you rose us who drove in those days with a truck . . from 16 and 18 and 20,000 pound gross weight to 40,000 pounds. Would you please how at the Committee you gentlemen figured ,.... out the ten twenty tire at so much weight and how you figured out the weight law which was in direct violation of , Buhner the state laws that were already in affect? Buhner: During the war period. Early parts of the war ' period, 1942, I was asked to come t;Washington and become a member and take a position with the Office of Defense Transportation. (ODT) Then I .. come Section Chief for Hire Carriers. work one of the problems we had city of a truck. How you would descr a truck. We had to have that bee . · 'capa- " capacity of in our regulations we .al~ays had to refer to the capacity of a truck because we WB.l'l.ted trucks to carry their maximum capacity that they could because we-were in a war and we were trying to con- . . . serve-all the facilities. We had to conserve rubber, which was very critica~. Of course we had to conserve parts and also gasoline ~d all i(hose. Those were all critica:t,. So we wanted to. get the maximum use~ of a truck so we tried to describe ,the capacity of a truck. In those .da;~ . the power unit was principally referred to as a ton and a . . half, or "t(wo ton, two and a half, and I think about five. ton was probably the maximum capacity of the power vehicl~ in those days. ""·'f~th four tires on the pulling axle and· then two t1 res on the front axle of the truck, you had ten tires. - Ten tires times forty five hundred pounds gave you forty five thousand poundS as ~he actual carry~ng capacity. So the powers to be then in the Office of Defense Transportation accepted that suggestion and they issued a Federal . " . . - " 145 Register and it actually became law. At that·p~rticular time of course that was more than states of Kentucky and Virginia, and Tennessee, and maybe Texas and several other states allowed in carrying capacity in those. states permitted legally. But most of the other states in· the country, i'n the u.s. were all.within this. Were all legal under that sort of a situation. Woods: Would you like to tell of the Commissioner. What· he said about it when you told him it was over most of these states that we had in mind? Buhner: We came down to him ·and we informed him of it and that was the problem. Woods: Commissioner Rodgers. Buhner: And I remember the Interstate Commerce Commissioner,. John L. Rodgers, said, 'Well, why· don't, we issue the order and ju"st see what happens? Maybe we can clear up some of these things.' So the order was-issued, but before it was issued in that exact form the u.s. Bureau of Roads, asked __ us to put a maximum of forty thousand pounds for those states, __ .: .. - Buhner which worked pretty well within the formula because the front ax~e having a carrying capacity of nine thousand · poun?s by two tires on there couldn't carry the nine . I • thousand pounds anyhow rjo we went along ~ith that i.it.u uaatio~:r So, of course,· things /eally broke loose for a day~W?·· · Telephone.c.all,s and everything else. But the Chairman~of ~ . the Commission said, 'Well,, just. ride ·it out.' And .consequently what happened, the states that were below that formula finally recognized it and that was the,first time that we actually broke the weight law~ in the state of ' Kentucky and Tennessee and possible -in another state or. so, and that was the b~inning of it. A,nd of course later on, ' . then having operating under that Federal law then for a number of years why then it wasn't too much of a task. Woods: You set a precedent. Buhner: Because we had set a precedent.· But previous to that time the fact that I was from Kentucky and had ~ residence and had been operating rrry company in Kentucky ' we had been able to break the 18,000 pound law and finally had worked out ~ program with the Governor of Kentucky to step it up to .30,000 pounds, and then later t6 32,000 pounds. And that's how we gradually broke through that "'- thing. Then of c~>Urse when the Office of Defense Transportation when that law was then pulled off~he ~ooks·w~ we· had to go back to those old weight laws ag~in, but that's when we did our battle in the Kentucky l~gislature, and we " Buhnr:>r w~ r~ then ab1 e to in the Kentucky L~gis ... lature to get up to the ODT standard. Woods: Now, to introduce another point· in ·the history of American int:"'erstate trucking, the Diesel Engine. Mr. Buhner had been the founder of the Silver Flee't Truck L! ne running from Chicago South to Louisville. How· far· South did you·serve, Mr. Buhner? Buhner: We op~ratea as far So~th ~s Birmingham, Alabama, Chattanooga, Tennessee, and at one~time tp Charlotte, North Carolona. Woods: And as with Mr. Pop, John-Brady, and many others the~iesel engine made its appearance along about 1931, 32, • it started coming on the road, did it not1 • Buhner: Yes·. Woods:· And of course, like the Wankle ~ngine of todayprobably, it was looked upon with much doubt •. I can well remember the r;torie~; well, it would blow up, it'll • run away, • • the engine wil~ rlpi away. What they mean't by> that, it wouldn't hop out of the tractor and run dQwn tne road. -It meant that it would get reversed and·be sucking air and .. compressing air and would go so fast th~t it would blow 'up ~ and kill everyone. The driver and everythj,.ng. I suppose you heard those stories in those days. BUhner: Yeah. • 'p And some of those were scare stories. Woods: Yeah• And they were' ve-rY similar :to the automobile industry denouncing the steam engin~ by saying it blew up .. ·, Buhner ' and killed everyone. . But anyway I would 'like. to ask you t the importance; and what you triou.ght of it, ~and whether you motorized with it' and some of the things that were .... the advantages of the diesel engine .to the interstate r trucking industry that you exper.ienced. Buhner: Wel1, I suppose our company was·probably the . first -company operating from. Louisville into Chicago that used some diesel ~n~ines. I am talking now of the ·regular common carrier operation. Woods: About what year did ;you dieselize your ~quipment~ · Buhner: f' ' Must have been around about 1934. Around t~ere sometime. The fact that I was born and raised within 20 miles of where the Cummins Diesel was made and th~ fact we knew Mr. Jessie Cuffimins. I think his ~irst name.'was Jessie. We knew him •. Naturally, we had an interest in .seeing if we . ; couldn't develope or couldn't use the diesel. We were in':" terested in the pow~r that 'it had. Of course we ·at times had to'fight pretty heavy snows going into and out of · Chi·c,ago. • In those days the roads we rep 1 t all paved betJteen Louisville and Chicago. Still quite a few old gravel roads . . - • and in those days they didn't clear the roads you just;had •' to plow through 'em. f And for a number of year13, for several' ~~- . . years .then those big diesels were able ·to go ~hrough and . many times the Greyhound Bus would follow thre)ugh·on, some· T- -. of thos'e roads when our ctfesel trucks would open them up. We put diesel trl,lcks into.· the ord:j..nary truck t:hassis o:f 'the .. . . . ' Huhne..r .- time, but we found out that that was quite unsatisfactorybecause the engine had too much power for the other, components of the truck. The transmission could be torn out and we always had trouble. Then the originai diesel was • a four cylinder, and we had one four cylinder and·one of . the big six cylinders.· The four cylinder engine pretty · well shook the truck apart. There was tremendous vibration in th'at. Bu·t there we-re s~Qie .adv.ant~eSo that we. had. That . ,~he diesels had. And some quite a few disadvantages. But we then finally concluded tnat we wouldn •t put anymore'· diesels in our gasoline type trucks, until it was a complete I unit engine·ered for a diesel engine. But there was one interesting thing that happened during this period that ~ - . ' shows you just what you could-do with a diesel engine and " that was during the big flood of 1937, in-Louisville. We at that time had the one six cylinder diesel and one four cylinder diesel in operati_on. In fact that these diesles had practically no electrical equipmerrb on them; • that is spark plugs and those things. 'l'he f'act that the ' exhaust stack was up in the air instead of underneath 'the truck, these diesel trucks were able to go tbrough water\ . '\ . . •.· .· much deeper than. almost any kind of vehicle that could be ... .. - ' - ~ . ·~ ~:> had at that time. And these;wo ~i·esel trucks played a very important p~rt rescui' people in the 1937 flood. The 1937 flood was ten feet deepe~. I·suppose I can say deeper --than any previous flood the city. 'had. ever had. And of .- ~ 0 • ':.-. (• Buhner course 10 feet above the w~rst flood~";stage that- we had ever had why would· be quite a depth. In fact a.~most all of Louisville was unindated, ex·cept just here or there an 'island or so. But in the rescue work we at that time had one 30 foot semi trailer and anQther one I think was around a 28 foot trailer that were being pulled by these diesels. The closest estimate that any of us could make. on the thing was that we probably rescued at least 2000' people and brought them into safe living quarters during this flood. Our drivers at many times were driving with their feet hanging in water in the cab pO they could still work the brakes and that, but the engine was still running.~ The engine coUld run. So they were getting into places that you just couldn't get anywhere except with boats. But boats could only. Small boats could only handle just a very few people. I was told that one of the trucks to the YWCA, that when our trailer_backedup there that they took out almost everybody out of the building, and that exceed~d somewhere ardund a hundred people that we hauled at one time. But when the score was all settled and . everything e1s.e it was determine-d that two babies were born on these trucks 0 in their rescue work and'two people died on our trucks while tney were bein~ rescued.' In fact-the story is ·and. it ~s collaborated by newspaper articles that the two babies were born to a mother and she was ~ort of way in .. 150 .. f'ront E!nd of the truck. She hadn 1 t come out l)f the truck. r~veryb@dY else had left the truck. Sh,e didn't come out. So the men went ln to get her and when they went in to p;et her they dlscovered that she had given birth to twins. Woods: Isn't that something? Buhner: It's right in here. Woods: It's in that article. We. 5hould probably read · that article at the close and have it in the tape. People just can't realize today just how deep this water can get. I was o~ten amazed when Jack·Brickhouse, the baseball announcer for the Chicago C'.~~, invariably when he came down to Pittsburgh to announce a game he would ask the cameramen to show on the TV screen a high water mark that they had put at the ball park which was 22 feet above the playing field, the ball diamond. And hesaid this was how high the water was at this ball park. Twenty two feet deep. Buhner: The fact that we could operate during ·it, we . . happen to be in one of the real high spots· in the city of Louisville. · Wef\11 had an is].>and wh~re our truck, terminal was located and it was used as one of the real rescue spots in this city of Louisville. .. Woods: I can remember coming doWI!through here after it was over. Of course you know w.e always ran the Northern Route. We heard about this. I remember I made a t:rip'South one time. Not with a truck, but telephone poles that stood J >--~- Buhner pretty high above our head had been covered completely. They didn't even p.rotude out, they were just covered underneath the water, the top of the pole. And it's unbelievable. Yet, what always got me.Mr. Buhner~ I'll never forget this fella telling us about it, he said right· after it was all over the people went right out on the farest point and built a house again. Whe~ they had a hard time saving them they went right out there and built a house. Well, I suppose they went by the safety~of what had happened once in my lifetime will never happen again. Well, this definitely proved the diesel engine. Now as . . for the power of the diesel compared to the combustion in i"wrse power, in service ability, we already got that where i~uld run through snow and water and things. Then the weight laws were in jeopardy again, were they not, because now we had a power unit that could handle much heavier wei~ht. And with advent of the Westinghouse ~ir Brakes, came on the trucks about this time, d::l.d they not, and then we were ready again t·o shove up that weight law. Buhner: One of the advantages that the diesel had ·it had , l almost as much power at a slow speed. as it had at a.fast· speed. So, when you'were climbing a grade and that w~y the vehicle had tl)e ability to maintain its speed going up which was a great help to' the other tourists ~ho were on the highways. Whereas, with the old gasoline engine when it got up to a pretty good sized grade they had to pull down . ;.;;: . •'; l . \ ) ' Ruhner . 153 1 nto low gear and of cour~e that would make a lot of people .. rather unhappy on thes-e single lane highways of those days. Woods: That's right. Jacob's Ladder and Leban~n Mountain and some of these steep hills in the East, Mr. Buhner, I know we had one to test that the Pennsylvania school up there taught us hew to determine the reactions of drivers. Their eyes was another very important thing. And strangest thing we had quite a 1 number of drivers that thought t1nrir \ eyes were perfect. And when we finally got them through I the test, which took a little while to make them realize, and then after they had worn glasses for a while they even thanked-us for cause it helped them to save--- helped.to protect their lives and all that. Woods: ·rn 1945 Mr. Ted Rogers, the president for the American Trucking Association asked a Committee be formed on National and State organizations. It was formed and Mr. Ed Buhner was made the chairman of it. Now,.Itm going to ask Mr. Buhner to t~ll us its purpose; what it accomplished, and his chairmanship of this organization. Buhner: When this committee was formed some work·had been-~ . f Buhner done in the studying the American Trucking Associations to qevelope a more firm program as to what ~he p~rpose of the Association was. It's ideals. How it should be organized, and, all that. Some organization had been hifed 'to do some of that' work but they not being familiar with the real ·background of trucking and what-. brought it about· and all those things they came up with a report that was in some respects even laughable because they didn't have any conception at all of what the real problem was·. Having, that sort of report before the group. Before the executive conunittee. It was determined that probably the people that eould do the best job in setting up and stu?-ying ATA 1 s organization structure and that would be members of the executive conunittee and the ind~stry, and that was why this committee came into existence. Mr. Ray Atherton became secretary, who at that time was also in the management position ~ith ATA and he' gathered most of the or a lot of the information and at ieast wrote the report. Ray had the ability to write something so everybody would understand what he had written. Very excellent~· And he knew a great deal about the inside organization of the ATA. Having been with the Interstate Commerce Commission and knew quite a bit abou~ the background of trucking and he was a very, very capable man. Both he arid myself had come through the ODT, Office of Defense Transportation. I had only been there 'seven months and he was there Buhner 167 for· three or four years. So he was very, very qualified in helping on the study and he had charge of the field· force of ATA, and naturally all the general managers of va.rlous state associations. He worked with all them. And the result was that we had to have a lot of.information and get their ideas. So when I accepted the membership I accepted it on the basis that we would have an open committee, and that hoth myself and Mr. Atherton would be permitted to call in anybody we wanted to into the committee and get their ideas. We then. set a sort of a hearings, regular type of hearings, and we worked with, I imagine, better than 200 men that actually appeared at these various meeting9. Give us their ideas and all that. And we then tackled one subject after another and we finally would up, I think, I recall right now, withsix ' different reports. And these reports were filed ~ver a period of two years, and we checked them as we went along. Checked them with the executive committee. Those reports that had been finished. And then when the whole thing was completed it was then formally accepted. Some of the things that we did, the major things that we accomplished was first because it was known that Mr: Ted Rogers did not want to continue as President of ATA, he had served 14 years and even a year or so before that he had . stated that he was going to retire, the end of 14 years •' And that was one of the reasons he was very much interested " · Buhner • personally in having this report made. At -the· time there ... were quite a number of states had ~arious number of trucki ing associations. Some of them had as many as almost ten~ And they were just scattered, and there was no real resemblance of organization. So we got into that subject and we found and recommended that .. the best organization would be for each state to have one association. And of course there were other people that appeared before the committee that said well let the state have as many organizations as they wanted, but we rejected that idea, because what was happening then was quite a few of them was fighting each other in the state legislature. I can remember quite well that ~en in the state of Kentucky a whole group of operators·, who at that time was considered the ~arger operators I suppose because they operated larger equipment, and the down-state truck operators, who were operating ton and a half Fords and Chevrolets, they were opposed to · that crowd and we were defea_ting ourselves in the state legislatures. ~-i So we proposed that we have only one ~ssociation in each state. At the time we had three states where it was' rather impractical to accomplish that. And, -that wa~ Illinois, and New York, and California. So we recognized those three states and we said that we had one association in each~tate with the exception of those three states and we would be hopef~,l that over a period of years they would solve their differences and become one. It took us most ten years before we finally reached that position that we now only have one state organization~ See, ATA is con,;_ trolled by the state organization, and it is not from the top down; it's from the bottom up. Another reason that we had for wanting one state organization and this might be a little ticklish in making this statement, but it was a very true orie. And that is, iri the legislative fights, in appearing before the ~egislat~re,· . I· . we had quite a few politicians who wanted more or less·to have their best boy friends working in the s,tate as.sociation·s and under certain conditions they were hoping they could control the association, and all that. I well recall .. • I . - one state ~ssociation where the top officers of the state L-........,..~ insisted that a certain employee, who happened to be a f very personal friend of his, that he be made the state manager and that the state manager, who was in Florida at ' the time, that he be released and put their man in. Of course, his objective was to get control of the association. Some of the men who,were not famil~ar with the work th~ we did on our committee were not cognizant of one of the facts that we wanted to accomplish, and we did acc·omplish, and that was the fact that the state association didn't have t9 bow to those type of men. Of course, in this state ' association there were quite a number of men on thei·r local · ..._ ~· directors that they were willing to yield. But when they .. were told that if they yielded and turned their associp.t~on. ~ .At·!-k f;:. "~ Buhner over to this political person, that that's when they ' would lose recognition of ATA. And if the idea, this pol~tical person had any idea ma.n·.1d any that he was going to control the trucking industry in that state ~ rough the association he was very, very badly mistaken because we would immeqiately informed the whole organization. So we scotched that immediately. And the only that had to be done was tell that man what would happen.· That he didn't have a chance, and pointed out to him the purpos~ of this organization. That was one of the major things that we dealt with. Another thing that we dealt with was the structure of the officers of the American Trucking Association and we tJ recommended that there be a chairman of the board, that 170 there be a president, and of course secretary and treasure, and we also elected fo'l.fr vice presidents. And they were '---- then the top officers of the ATA. ·But the .fact that a man was either first, second, third, or fourth.vice president didn't mean that he would asqend ~o the presidency. And ' then we also elected to limited the pre~ide~cy to one year. The man was elected to president, he would t~en move up to Chairman of the Board, and then move on his way. Then the . first vice president would normally exceed to the presidency. We did because tha't;; gave a man a year's time to p~epare . himself for the presidency. But, no formal recognition was ' given to second, third, and fourth vice pres:l,del).ts so they Buhner 171 could ascend up the latter •. We didn't want that• Woods: Buhner: As the T)nions say, 'Come up from the rank and fiie~: 1 And that has been in affect ever since then. We '!i studied the dues structure of the various states ~q we found out that it was such a complex problem that we couldn't come up with any type of cross the board program for dues structure so we left_that item entirely up ·to the states, and showed them why it had to be done and all that. Of course, a.lot of the state managers they were very interested in wanting us to set up a schedule for them, but we left that strictly~n a voluntary basis for every state. Then we also set up an organization within the organizational.rank. A Board of Directors. How the ATA was to be organized. First we asked that each state' elect a vice Ill.. president to the executive committee. So we had one'man from each,state. And then also we had the Conferences. We had various conferences. And each conference would elect ( one man who represented them on the executive committee. So then that we have an exe~utive committee. The beginning of it at least. We had 48 states at the time and then 48 vice presi.den'ts,' and I think we had .. approxiametly ten conferences. I don't know if I can mention them all right now but:· common carrie~, regular common carrier, contract carrier, cartage, household goods carriers, and several '\ .· . "· others. Minor ones; steel haulers, I believe, and several ~; .. Buhner minor ones and since then they have added a few more to it. So that gave us our basic· exec\ltive committee and 172 'they met approxiametly three times a year. Then we, at our annual meeting we permitted each state to send seven delegates from each state and they were actually the Board of Directors, but they only met once a year, and it more / or less gave them a·voice. So each state had the same amount of say so in the ATA. Then the. As the· Presidents retired, or Chairman of the Board, retired he then retained his position on the Executive Committee from then on out, -- as long as he stayed within the industry. If he went out of the industry he would have-to drop. That_ was principally manner in which we set up the ATA structure. Of course we organized quite a number of other ) type of committees to handie other things. One of thB real problems that gave us q~ite a bit of concern was the various opinions among the different· conferences. The - , contract carriers against the pr~vate carriers, and against the irregular and the reg~alr carriers, and how_ to solve the differences of those di~ent o~ganizations. That- .. project was rather complex, but we did set up a formula for how it was to be done. And apparently that has out pretty well over the period of years. In fact abau· he only thing that has ever been changed in this whole organization structure that this committee set up, which is commonly spoken of as the, 1Buhner Committee ~eport,' is we have know that we can't satisfy everyone. As t you know I travel quite a bit in gathering the pistory of American Interstate Trucking and naturally I meet. Now, the other day I was in Iowa and I waswith some truckers over there. They're smaller truckers, and I noticed you mentioned in here that you went sort of on the dividing program that the bigger ones who put more money in and caused the ATA to operate had probably no more voice than the little fella, but yet he does have more voice because he's paying more money. And so. I Now, you haven't been with the ATA now for several years, have you? Buhner-: Been inactive. Woods: Do you. Have you heard, is this working out as the way you men seriously tried tp make it wdrk out? Buhner: Well, going back, you got to_remember when we did this work and the ATA was. organized and all through thos~ things, most of us were small truck operators -in comparison to what they are today. And even though we 178 were ···small 'truck operators compare"d to" today;· tll.e'te were: :,. , .. ,,. ' . a lot of.. smaller-truck operators than we were. I don't suppose in the early days in ATA that we had over twenty· trucks, or something like that. We were small, compared ~ I . ' Buhner 179 to other businesses. We were small. I remember in the atate of Kentucky here that practically the entire trucking lndustry was in Louisville, Kentucky, ___ cause there were two . - substanti ~1 co~on carriers here· at thatife and naturally .. we had to~~carry the load. The smaller true operator down ln the state he wasn't interested. But ince the laws.· We were able to correct the laws and all that and a go,od strong organ:Lzation :Ln the trucking industry; 'those fellas; a lot of those fellas have ri~w prospered and they're now ,. coming up with a pretty ;good size truck operators and actually. ' ' . today some of the better; stronger truck lines are down state rather than in.the city of Louisville. And the ones tpat '• were in the city of Louisvi).le; take 1'or instance our compM,y, ~ are now owned by the Mason Dixon Line, which is a big company. And I can remember Mason Dixon Line in-the. legislative fights in Tennessee which I was somewhat involved in, that they were comparative large as far a~ Tennessee; but we were at .. that time even larger than they were~ But they've grown. \ They got young men. A couple of f:J.~e young·-sons that have v ~orne up in that business and.they have buil;t that business. And I see that happening down in the state here in Kentucky. Some Qf those When_ they come to a state· cc~mvent;ton I keep on meeting yo~g~r men. And they're coming ~d they're ¥;f; . building major truck, but of course it will' take ,·them years to~et where the bigger operator is. ;Now; in the Common ,., C~rr~~rend of this business. Of course that is getting into '.,_ \ I / \ Buhner the hands of big business today and I don •·t think any of these fellas will ever get to that status, but trucking and the- industry and the states needs t>mall truck lines. They are very important. And the ~nterline carrying in. A big major truck line can't a{!ord to operate in these smaller towns. They are much better off giving their freight and keeping these smaller linfts, which you might call, 'feeder lines.' Same thing is happening in the ' . bus lines today, as practically Greyhound you might say. What's the other one? Woods: Trailways. Buhner: Trailways. But they're.working with all the feeder lines. These smaller bus lines. t Woods: Well, airlines do it. And everything else. Buhner: Airlines. And there is some of those boys that 180 I'm afraid might be taking a little bit the wrong attitude. - . ' But you need strong organizations, and in order to havE! } . . strong organizations you need strong,companies to back them up. And it's an evolution. The time that I spent with the Office of Defense transportation. ,We were there . . . . at that time there was supposed to be about two million trucks in the United States. That included every type of truck. Farm trucks and all of that. Today I 'think we're around ten million. Woods: More than likely, seventeen million. ' ,· . . ) .. ~ '·'_ .. , . ...,.- . · .... ::.-. / Buhner 181 Hubner: 'fhat's it. And at that time tl;lere were no statistics. We didn't know how many trucks' there were or anything else, only what the automobile manufactures put out. This booklet, """"' and we had to work from that. And when we got to dealing with the other organized industry, like the rail industry and all those; in order to hold our own, we had to talk. That's the only thing we had was what we could- talk about. And so it was after that that we started in ATA and started develop~ng these various functions that the ATA is / now in. But, it's been my belief that what· used to be the small truck operators have all grown under the umbrella of the organized industry. The fact that we stopp"ed all these various state associations from jumping up here and.'gumping up there, and so funneling all this thing through a rather strong organization that the ind~stry has been abie "to 8> grow now. I don 1 t think that they have outgrown that. I .. • don't say that everything they do is correct. I don't say -;J thl.t there shoUldn't hB:ve to be- ch~LSE!~tllf'In fact I 1 ve always said that this Buhner Committee Report that it should be ff>wiewed at least every five years. Cause the .industry grows and what we did, well almost thirty years·ago, and ~-.-~.- • J " . '- what we did thirty years e,gb may not apply today.. If 1 t does, why keep it; but, if it·hasn't, make a change, ·.And a lot of these younger boys now cgJiling into the :Lndustry.i' ·. ,, . ~hey haven't any conception of the ·fights that we were in and what we had to do to keep this industry going. ~--·· ,-,- '· -. ~ ' ,_ Buhner . 182. Woods: :I'hat 's one of the point_s I was hoping. you'd bring out. Buhner: I go go conventions and a lot of these boys are 25, 30 years old and get into the position of junior executive, but they haven't,any id_ea of what we fellas had to --~ go through. Woods: History is so important and youth sometimes hesitates to read history until he has grown to old to have done anything about it. I.would~like to elaborate a little bit •. I ~ ... \ hope, ~r. Buhner, th~t you will recognize my side of it and I hope you will allow me to make this statement without thinking I'm making the statement in a derogatory I do not believe th~t today the American Truck ... the ATA as '\ITe know it, is actually performing the job that it should be. I think it could do a little better. But, I believe they are going to pay for this if they don't do something about it. But.I believe they are a little bit asl~ep. I believe they're going on as you say the young men come•to~the convention and he doesn't rea~ize •' the· sw~~t, -and the. ~ork, and the hardship' that t.~is was born in. I've always said trucking was born in poverty where railroads were born in wealth and public acceptance. Buhner: A lot of truth to that. Woods: And trucking was born in poverty and public rejection. And the sons today do not know this. And even those that's come up since World· War Two forgot they're past. If they were ·" .. ·t Huhncr drivers like me in the thirties, they have forgotten. 1'11 never.forget one man who's very active in this field and he told me. He said, 1Well, Harry, the truck.ers today is not quite as sophisticated as we were. He forgot the thirties.' I should change that he said, 'The trucker today is more sophistic,ated than i.n our day. 1 He 1 s forgot the thirties. He is now not quite the fellow that stopped on the highway to help y::m and reach in his pocket to loan you money. Well, Mr. Buhne.r, as .you are one of the Founding Fathers. I believe you are one of two on the Executive ·Committee 183 of the American T~king Associations still lPft. I believe .,.. it's Mr. Chet Moore of Marathon, Florida and you, is that not right, that is still on the Executive Committee. Now you have seen this thing along with other men your age .and older from the very beginning up to today. And this Bulmer Committee, where you as I mentioned very dedicatedly like the Founding Fathers of America, tried to put in little trap laws. Honest laws. And with your skill in the legislative, you were the man qUalified to do it to where no one could gain contro-l. ·No one could s·tep up ~d t~e over and make himself a permanent president. No one could for~ a click and get control and ·manipulate the A~~ to his own will. However, it has been attempted as you and I know. Do you believe that there is a. danger exists today in the·· youth that is now inheriting and coming up from the truck ;J.. "I Buhner 1 lines that were nothing that are now big, and their fathers made them big, and now their fathers· are in their sev~rittes,. well into retirement age and have to hand it over. In one case you know of the boy is going to be president of the ATA, and the head of the company his father started. Do you believe there is a danger that ex~s~s, or do you believe that these men, ~ven though they are of the long 'na~r age ' and you and I are of the short hair age that they will ·" respect and see, ~d be willy enough to keep it going as you tried to plan out? Buhner: Well, I feel that there are· probably a lot of very fine. men that are coming up in the' 1 . ~. ·•. Buhner many,people who would ridetrains if the '!;rains were serviceable. And now they got a bonus, they got their own car with them. They can driv~ it right off and thei " got their own car while there. They don't have to handle 188 a fifteen or sixteen hundred mile traffic from Chicago to Miami. So this will be~competitive, ~d what you're saying and touched upon the subject, the government could take this over. They could poor the money into the tracks. They could eliminate the competition that they'!e now 1 bucking against and strip it down to where the~ got two or three main line flyers .in this country and they could give trucking some trouble you know. And it's very possible ' this might happen becuase of need, if nothing else, just absolute need. Such as the natural assest to trucking was ~ that it was needed. Lets say that. And it could be that - this can.come up. Frankly speaking as a trucker I hope that the ATA always keeps going, and that it's kept in good hands. Unselfish hands, and out of the hbds of those who would ·.use it through small clicks for their own will . ' power. HQwever, from.the evidence I have seen in the field, Mr. Buhnef, they're going to have .to do something and do it quick. I think they're waxing: in their own fat., we might say, . and -they .. don 1 t -know the danger that 's . creeping". up em .. . . them from tlissatisfied-members that can't compete_any longerc 4 ' . unde.r'their regulation laws and under their favoritisms; which there are favoritisms. · ·'' .. v . Buhner Bulmer: Well, in.the modern years of running a business there is too many of them have ------ I won't say too many, ----many of 'em, ---- of new men nave come into the business who after so long, they think they"re the complete power and the brains and the business itself, when possibly they don't recognize that a lot of the men that ,are wroking under them are the ones that have been the real successfu1 and prominent ones. And I've always had a creed and·r know it's worked out a numher of·times, and I've seen :t.t fail ~ in other companies, and that is my. creed has always been* that ... if you ~ake good care of your business it will take care of you. 1rnd I d·on't know of· any other creed that is probably· more true to life than that one, cause I 1ve seen those men ·- who didn't take care of their business, who thought tbey· were everything, wno thought. that they should draw' big .. salaries, and all that out of business, to see their business gradually go down. ~ ' . . ' . Where as the other man }'ThO worked at-his 'o . .. /> • business, spent his lifet.me at his business, wo~ked and made the business produce; then he ;was·. :the beneficiary ~9~ it. After all, a corporation can't pay ~:;+g s.alarie~ to" people· ' - ·-·. ~-- . unless.tl).e eorporat-ion lflakes -money. ,. Woodst The-niore you put in it the more security and the. ' . more you can take- out. You c_an,,t take it out if·you don•t·· put "it ±n. . : ' . "Buhner: ~ ThatJs right. --- Woods: Mr. Buhner, I(m always confronted with questions.as " . 't . ' · .. --~ .. .:. ' . - -- ~ • Bulmer ' . ~ .... •' ' ~ ~ .. 1. g~ iJ.r?~!l~! ,-,·"T~~y sa¥; 'Wba.t s.tat·e: wis.:~tn~ .fj,t.~~~- :tl1,.1t;t( ' -..~\ •. l .. . • .... ~. ,.. ~~~J.t~(~e:·bi.~th ··to in~~st~~e truck~~~:· ~he --~ong{?a~~?J !Who .. , .. · ... -. -~~-~ tr~ rat~e_r-,or_J.he· kner~c~ Truc~in~ ~~d~st~?~- ~a.Y.b_e, ~~ .. -~ c ~~ • r ! can c,o:pt'ribut~ .something as fo wpat .states beGaUS~. I ... ; . ~ ,.. ~y ' ~ -. " study" this -in the field so nn.i~h,. this 'indUf?try. ·But, who~~- -1: .. __ • ~ ~- ~ . ~ ·a· . - . ~a.s. the~ father, i~ quite a problem for ni_e to~ \lilswer .... It' h .... ~ • . ": ._ . ~i. , a'most formidable questiort. At one :time, like Georg~ W~sh- • r • • • \ ~-t • - • t · -li. irtgton is not questioned .a14t. all that he 1 s the Fat'heJ.Of . { Amefica;· . ~ . ~~e- United. States, Am~rica . •. ·. However, tpe. . ~ou~hs.~ ~ Tp my told meDthat~they're • - 1 ~ surprise they •. -'~ not' sa' sure that George WaJhington 1 s th~ather. ·of America: ,r· .. of that United ·States. That after all- when you study .. •• . . . \ . ~- . . '. . '.lnilital1' he wasq!t t.he b,ePt General, he had men under him . : th~t was bettter :· he made bloopers here, and he did that; c ~f but, he came.out Eirld they won the war .• Well, th~ir answer~ .· that 'is, •Well, from the time 'the ..first shot was· fired by the fi!~t-·C~]Ani)-1, Engl~d d'idn 1 t· h.av~"a. chC,;ut . - they just didn't-know it was all~ ~ We11,I 1m confronted .. "'- • • -... • .q, ,. . ~ with -who's ~he, father o~: American trucking and I was, ..tt ~ .. .· first, . great ~o quo~e · right back in a hurry, · 'Ted V. ·Rogers. The first president of the American Trucking Associations. The fiWI ~ho ref~ an' 't~e il.ssociations. - WJ;o broUght it all under. one, head .and gav'e it the ump, he had the dr:tve,. ~"d.- to p.rove it ~e w~s presi~ent for fourteen ye~rs~f. :oneecutive- ye~r~. So therefore· he had to berpresident an'd he> I . . • :.~ ' c ~&~~,I had 'to be the founder of American Trucking. Interstate,·-wa111 . . ' I ~ .. ..-. ~!.- ·' .. Buhn~r . ' . ~: . ·t I ·: Ji . -· ';, - ' .. - · .. . .. say .• .But as time goes· pn 'I'm lead:tQbel;i~v:e like the youths. today 'about George Washington we' ll.say. Was he · 'industry?., ' . - -~.. ' - ~ '. or was .he what he was electe~ to. b·e,, .a. good speaker. _ . I've ~t~lked to· the man who w~otE_i his speeches. T·alked to ~he men whoes lived him. And he was the most dedicated man. · Let's put it this· way,"' to give him ·all rights . . ~ . . and I believe you 1 11 agree; he·· kllled himself in forming ' this organization. He worked til be was ready to die. So you can~ t take away he was on~ ~f the grea:t, great . "' . ~ . leaders·. I wouid say he -was probably one of the' greatest ·' ' 9 ' ' 0: organizers the trucking. industry ·ha.s: ever enco'Uilte:red, _ and it 1 s a ve'ry good thing that they ·founq. ·him when they .· did. He org~ized it. So ma.yb~ he should have credit' ' .. { • . .lJ -. l_ • - as being the Father of the Ainerican .trucking industry. f • But " . "' .. .. 1 Buhner W1.11 you hesitate like I ·do t.oday, or do you believe that ,. Ted v. Rogers was the Father of the American Tr':l~king {l -Industry? . Buhner!, My impression of Ted v. Rogers is that he 1 s the Father of the organized industry, .who organized the .t' industry to protect itself. I am not very familiar-wi~h his life. as a truck operator. As far as the Father of· ~ :H:! tr,lcking industry\ I•think ·tp..a:t•~'something qu~rte different than being the Father of the organization of the trucking industry. Now there were a lot of small truck organizations in the various states. Even some in the cities, and all'that. Th~y-were all jumping around and had no r~al direction or anybody at the top. And when trucking becrune interstate it mean'~ that a lot of the work to· develope the trucking industry had to be done on a a national effort and it was Ted~iogers I t~nk, without a doubt, that deserves to be knowri as the Father, if you want -.. to use ·that term, of the organized-trucki~g ipdustry who I really brought it together. ·He d~voted his life. I think > many times he carried the pay roll as much as"~ year and / the Association was qu:J,te indebted to him, and I often wondered sometimes if held ever get his money b_aclt'out • Fortunately, that all happened and things· c·ome out in good -, shape. But,. he is in my opinion, having·worked with him ~ and all that, I thiOk he deserves the credit of being the ~ather of the Organized-Trucking Industry. \ \ \ • ,1 . .... .·'= Buhner · "' Now as far as the Father'of the Industry, I think pro ... bably there are more than just one Father of the industry· • • •. Because quite a number of them, and I suppose when you go 193 back to that most of those men that w~re Fathers of the ;\ . . . . industry have passed on and gone to their heavenly reward. l .. And I'm sure· th~t I have nobody to recommend. There are a lot of peopie that I would c.onsider in that category, but I only know them from just th_is general area in which. ~ live. They 1 ed probablu be a .lot of th~m in the East, \ " and probably a lot of them in the West. Arid a·lot of those ~en have passed on deserve the recognition of having been some piobeers ~f the business.' Woods: Well·, Mr. Buhner, I'd like to inform you that, Mr. ... John~. Brady, Sr. I was with him in Iowa a couple of weeks ago. He has the same view. ~He had a ·nice way of answering the question when I put it before him. •Well, he saig, I want to give Ted v. Rogers all the credit this man can.get in organi~i~ B~t, he said,"' Now wh~you come to say, ' - 'the Father of the industry,' now,. he said, that's a little 1 ..\ different answer to the question a.na;.there~s a lot of men that can qualify -for that acco7;d:ing.'':to::''my books. ' He said, 'I -can't because I ne;rer took too much part. I was running a big truck l+ne. But, 'he said,' I suppose you're out to -(' find the Father, of Fathers,' and he said, •so, that•~ why 11 you're asking me the question.' I said that 1 s right, Pop, · I'm trying to find the fathers •. And I said·· who wou·ld you ·. .• Buhner want to say, or who would you suggest. ¢ . ' l . I He says, 'Please do. me the favor and don't make me answer.' He said, •i 194 ' ' ~·· wouldn't know where But; he said, 'many' of them: to go.' that you are taping now, Harry, I would consider Fathers if I want to answer• your question.' Well, Ed, it 1 s getting back to the analogy again; George Washington,· the Father ':of America. The Father of our country. Yet, we turn around and we say the Founding Fathers. The·. Founding Fathers: Jeff~rson, Adams, Montoe, all of these men. I more or less take that route. I 111 give George Washington credit to a great degree, but then the-rest I want to be known as Founding Fathers. I believe Ted v. t ~ ... . Rogers ~id as George Washington. He won the battle of organizing. Now then, you founding fathers go to work. · ;: · .... - And I agree with both you and Mr. Brady on that. Now' :; it's my point to find who are those founding fathe~:s./·.cNow .. - ~-- . . --:.; ··-· I have a few in my own mind that I' def.inatly '1:?f,~~g to. · insist go into my tape~?; and I am going to il'l~.i.~~ that. they 1- .:;:.,· •';.- be given much consideration in the publicat:i'otf'of- -these . -. -~}- , __ -,--.' . - ' " . ;>{·~-~:.- .-· -:.- tipes by the Micro~ilmipg Corporation ~q:;;:the New York ---~~-/~ ~:!-~ ~- .. -~~:- Times Oral' Historty 'program. That thei¢'~ni~n be given consi- .. , ,-L>!(-- ,/=::-.. - - deration. , B-eca~s:· l feel that I:,;!/tif;rk_ed with them and I've listened~ to ~.heir· ·stories a.figtl}:Ve compared and l • -- . ~~ - - -~-~:~--=£ ..!r- ---.-~~--;. - -- - - . that I ;am qualified ts:>:,·~a.y;who some of these. Found- ·- . - . ..1/'~ -~- . . ( • : . thers are. At least. f'.~;lf. give their names and leave :{Y -.~ -it up for future historian${t() decide. I will name two.men . • :~-'} l . i .. Buhner 195 ·right of.r that I derinetly say are rounding rathers. Any -~ man who ~fposed the Indiana Legi.slature 1931-33 ~ith the.· • •. ... - I . consoliqated -railroad lobbyist force has to go down as one "' ~ of the rounding fathers to dereat'that unbelievable overc . whelming force and with such a small group, an:d to up and dereat~hem is unbelievable, so I would say, that Mr. \ Maurice T~c~er, o_r South Bend~ Inclif.na. Fo\mde'r ~d pre- . sent day treasurer, and e~ecutive vice president, I believe, of the Tucker Freight Lines, Incorporated; I would derinetly say he is one of the " outstanding rounding ~athers of the- American trucking industry. Wo»ld you agre~ with me on that, Mr. Buhner~ -ft"'t • .. Buhner: I would think so. Maurice has been in the business· ... longer than I ha¥e bee:n. and yeah, .he deserves that credit. Woods: And this might be a little embarras~ing to you, ~r. Buhner, but I would· say that you are· one of the founding .,. fa~hers of American trucking ind~str.r. Interstate-trucking . " -- ~ J'm speaking of and·I definetly feei that you deserve that . .. ' ~ title. You have appeared before legislatu·res •. You've been the head or committe~s. You've not only fought in one~ but t~o states that I know of. And you've tield high office in f'o~ing. the ATA; and I de:f~~etl; believe ;hou,ld be· considered one of t~e founding fathers of the American trucking industry. Will you accept that from me, Mr. Buhner? And I don 1t want·. you to be embarrassed, I definetly feel that you are one. 1- If __ yQU don't answer I'll continue.· You two at this date in -'f ' ~- - .~-: ·. ; ,J ' ~· .. Buhner I my mind f}.re two men. . I'm certainly going to give Ted V~ . . Rogers his credit, but I definetly say-that when the ~ - . - founding fathers come along, I know two of them and I fe~l honored to have met 'em both, and as I say, ! 111 repeat •. t One ts Mr. Maurice Tucker, that Granq 10le ~an of. :J:ndiana, and I say the Grand 10le Man of the trucking industry>' " '" interstate·; -~d you, Mr.t~Buhner. .So I'll let it drop at . . · ou can mill -that over in your mind as you wish. " to ask you a qu~stion and ;f'd like your answer· . . ·on this think deal; d you can take time to think this over, but·I it now. As-you know I travel a_great example, I was down to see your old friend, , Henry Dodge the other day~ I was up to Fort days later. Eight hundred miles North to see -6 Then I was in New York a couple of ~ay,s later -~ people then I was up ts~t Boston, so I " :·z~t ~- a great deal and here's what I'm bringing up. As . ' I got rough say, Indiana. And !'go through Ohio, and I ';, go th pugh these states· on these tollways, . and r· see. a ' resta ''rant here, the Jean Stratton Porter R!3staurant; ·~named in, her honor. A writer of Norhhern Indiana, who . . . wrot . ·. childrens { stnrie s back Erni •. lyle ~est~urani.;, named ' .• : ' • ·-! . . ·. : . i from Indiana UQ.:~versity that ,. . . ,.· ': . -~ in the turn of ~he century. · ~ . after the famous journalist was killed the Middle East. Far east • :Ware ~.orrespondent. Those come to my mind off --hand. I .believ~ Ed, that in ord~r for trucking to have r '' • . -:, ; - J. · Buhner . - the recognition that we're·trying to give it:through . . .t.his publication and through other writings you've got to have monuments to constantly be befo.re ,the ·public~· eye. ·That 1 s the way you have respect'e Tbat 's the way you develop culture. That's the way you get' recognition • .1 It's very hard for me as a hist.ori~, ·or aJ.ri te·r ,. for the trucking ~ridustcy to give public image to- , e highway - truck driver when he goes down the. road and crO'lds people off the road while I 1m ~going .. around telling them what a good lmight of the road he is. But, if you have a moniunent up somewhere. A road side monument that said, 'Here at this point;' so and so ~appened. Or; 1 In this State legisl~tion took plac;e.• Or a restaurant named after a -. . Maurice Tucker, or--an Ed Buhner, or a'Pop Brady, or a·Ca:;r:l - . . ... .4 Ozee. · I believe this will give our industry recognition . I f' and I've always advocated this but I~ve been laughed at most of the time. I 1 ve noticed- that the r~roads. Even the old railroad lines.will have a plaque up. 1At this bridge a certain event ·happened-, ' and so many hundre~ were .of. • killed, or ~ wreck happened here, or at ~this tree somethinghappened. -I remember in Wyoming I got a kick ?ut-of the- railroads in their public Felations. They had?a tree, which . - - they probably planted along the side of the road, and they said as the engineer came up over ·thi~ ~ill in t,his mountain that· it was so slow, and this was the -only tree for miles; that he and the fireman had a bucket and they filled it with . . I • , ... - ::. - -. I; r ... •' '• ; . ' .. '• . '8 .. .-.. , .• ' . . . . • . ': • ·. • '-.... : .. • • ta~e~.:;:niY b~C"}tgr?\ind~'fas actu~lly , • ·: . . • . ; . . I /. -', · te I wa~ ·.stil:l quiiie. 'a. young man ". • ~-1 tr~; . ,.. ·Bulmer '~205 and started to W?rk for my father when ~ was, a.l!I9ut~ 21 years.· .. ' I J ~ old. And we went through quite a'rew y.ears in which I learned the basic business. And then we came into the , .. World War Two period'(he mean't World War·One period) I . and I was still too young t6 be drafted ~nto the· army. ~ Ju'st more or less finishing high school, and went to 'the-,;.~ "" university a year or so, and then carne back and becamepermanently employed. T'te reason we ·went into the trucking business was because I pe~son~lly had_ sort of a fascinatio~ for the movement of cargo by truck. I visited a few places it where they were doing rather extensive trucking and at the • .I fl can imagine.:wl}at that .did to :us and all the truck lilies· in the state o~Kent~cky. ·Woods: Now, may I interrupt at this point Mr.,Buhiier. Number·one I want to go back. Do you recall the name ot . ' . ,·( the trucking:company you bought that ran.out of here? ,> Buhner: I think the name was Williams Trucking, ,pe~ause it : :f was Mr. Williams that we b_gught it from and his s·Qn stayed '- t with us for quite .a number of years and worked wifth us. · Woods: And secondly when Mr. Buhner speaks of the opposi- . ~--- -.:,. ~I i. ,~-- ... ·'-:_ .. · .. ·, Buhner 213 ·.' tion he means npne. other than the railroads. Al1d third'iy! I'd like to elaborate just for a moment for the·listener on this 18,000 'pounds.· I imagine :that at this time you had trucks that weighed almost·that much didn't you? Buhner: Oh,.~es. Woods: S0 this would mean the truck would ·run empty. It couldn't haul anything, which was the.ideal goal. of legislation that the railroads were after. Buhner: Well the equipment that we had was outlawed immediately, so 'le used our pick· up trucks. What we normally considered our small pick-up trucks. T;o~elve and fourteen. I think fihally~we went to 14 foot boxes.. Then· finally we also were able to have the Trailmobil~ manufacture some complete aluminum trailers. But they were only 16 foot aluminum trailers. · 'JJhey were small. And with them J and a light weight tract.or we were able to· haul up to f:i.lie tons of freight. Not .. more than five t.ons of freight. The · only reason we could exist is that, ---about the only t~ing .. ~ .... ·' we could haul was high rated freight. But that was the first attack of the railroads. We started exaritln~ng then_.just what .our position would be in Kentu_cky. And we found almost . · the same thing to start with in Kentucky that we had in Indiana. Kentucky did not have an association or anybod~ ' of any consequence to speak for the ind~stry. -The industry had no ·organization. ·Of cours.e, down state KentuckY there ~ere practically no operators and there were only two or / -. .• .· ' Bu.hner three. of-us in the city of Louisville. So we fellas were at the poin~ where we had to do the organizing and we sort of studied to see what our future was- 1n thetruqking industry. And whether we could co~tinue to operate South r. ' of the OhioRiver or not. Then when that law went into effect 1~ mean't that immedi~ ately when_we hauled freight from Chicago or Nashville, or Knoxville, or Chattanooga, or any of thpse towns in the South, we_ brought it to Louisville in larger trailers then had to unload all of it and seperate it and put it in these small pick~up trucks and then go on South. And then we also found these pick-up truc~s were harrassed wherever they went. Of course it was very easy for us to uncover where our real problem. was and that was we didn't have ~- .. fighting oiianization, 1or somebody representing us. So we got together and although I was nqt in the organiz~tion to es,tablish the new group it fell part my lot to get in on the legislative end of it. The railraods had no ·more than~passed this when the next session of the legislature they came with.another bill, the ton mile tax, and they try to do -al-most the same- thing -to us in Kentucky that Indiana. And they were successful~ They put a mileage tax. But, the· bill was ·so badly written and so badly administered that the follow~ng year we were able to have thing withdrawen from the books and from the . I f I . -laws of the state of Kentucky. -~ti\lring this time it was ' ·' . - -}..~ "' , Buhner \ several years that we.operated under 18,000 pounds. 'We "• had any.nilinber of problems. One"big problem was beingharassed by constables. .. ~. The state had a very old. systems·: . ' . ·' of constables and they practically livedoff of mioor . -... ... .. .:: :- ~ be unable to sell us operators the tn~ ~6f truck that we · requir.ed. . So th~y didn't t have much ~Y'mpathy in our story. But w~ kept plugging away and in the' in:t~ri;m we had made ' -c~~:j ·:· .. -~-~~:;: ' _ .. >\ some I?r?gress and we finally got ~I,ie·~~ate of Kentuc}lzy through tlie efforts of the Govern6rJKlng· Johnson to help us • • t .-. -· ·; • . ~- · .. ·· . out to a certain· extent. And in con,ersations,_ I was in : · ,, ... his. office with' some o'ther men,· that ;he, was there thie time. '' on account of his call to usi He /balled us by phon~ and asked us to COl]le in, and he sai,d·' that we could not pass the . : .. j I -. -~~ .. ·. . ' Buhner ~17 .. ~->i1> . bill that we~ would '1:ike- tq pass, 'but he said, '!'iaybe, I ...... got' a little hope for y·ou.:·~ I have been talking t.o the . railroad interes_t and r tbink. I can get the· rai_lrqad interest to agree to some . . _ little telief, and then • / c - sort of trUck law to ., __ give us a· . ! . ·- . . . . he suggested as I, recall 30 ·and ;: . \ - .. : ·- ,.- .# which wB.s 30,000 lb.- gross ;~d 30 foot ·length. So we ~- ii . . 30, talked th~ situation over a;hd I suggested to him; L said,· -~ · . ' :· \1 1 f 6: - ~Governor, . is it possible 't!haJ; you c·ould give us 32, feet?' J;. ?-'+~. ' I There was S?me par-:~~ular vason for it at that time that .. _ we felt .32 feet. He· said, 0h, .I don 1 t' thfnk. tpat ·that Is .·. . r . . . ' . ' 1 . unr~asonable, r ,and he sa"id$ 'Let. me talk. to the boys about . ~: .. it S?d we.'ll &ee. I 'If I ~;~n .get you· 32. feet,_ I 1 1:). do it.' ,fc So a ·couple of days later ~e called me by telepho~e and he .: said, 'That's agreeable witla me and itis agreeable with • them.' So he then more or less ch~pioned this chartge in th_e truck laws of the state· of Kentucky'. Now, before that of course·weihad~very little influence ' . - . in the legislature, but at ·this legislature.we had ·at~least . . one influence -on eur s·.tde -that .ne_li>~d us-a gre·at -de;al ev§!n l ~ then and in future years_, arid that-was Yfe had the farm ·interests on our side. And originally when the-truck 18,000 -pounq bill . was passed and> wh~n « ~alyzed what was·· ~ ~ ... . . pa.ppening and where t~power was to get a·bill through the congr~ss, through the 'legisl'ature as fast_ as they did and wlth the overwhelming vote,"we come to. f.ind out that the farm interest },lad voted for that. And the farm interest ' ... ... .- . - . a -.! ~ ., ... [ Buhner · ) at tt:,a.t time were about the strongest ).obJ?;/•in the Kentucky 'r So, we wen-t to work and we started a little_ advertising_· campaign in their publication. The f~rm publica~Xon. ~- ~d l . - ' I remember one of the first advertising we had in there was - a little story about, 'these little pigs went to market in Kentucky, and these little pigs went to tnarket in Tennessee,• . . and how much cheaper it was to get them to market and a ter~nal in T~~nessee than it was in Kentu~ky. I think tne costs was,almost twice as much to. haul pigs to the KentuckY ' market as it was in the'adjoining state. -- F ~- 7:.- ,.r /. This apparently irritated quite a number of -the faz:mers, this st iniporta:nt -_ -~- .; legislation ever passed. Still I'm going to ask you, wo,uld you agree with me? Buhner: ( Yes. I agree w~th you. But to the standpoint I ~-think as far as legislation just in Kentucky. That wa13 .· s' Buhner · alright ·for the state of Kentucky and sort of a pattern • . -,.. But, when we were able to get the federal la.w through the Federal Register and able to bring_that up to 40,000 • pounds, we showed the legislators in the varrous states where they had these restrictive laws that the 40,000 e>n--Mms-e-±:1~-ana -he--.c-leared--that thing for us. And he :did -that' notonly for us but he did for all , the othe.r people, .passenger cars and ·everything.· Woods: Let's speak a little-bit on former Governor Earl Clemens. He proved out, to be ve.ry helpful to you did he- not? Buhner: Oh; yes.. Oh, yes. Wo.ods: And today he 1 s with tne tob~cco interests as a ! . ... ~ lobbyist in Washington,- D.c., is that right? Buhner: Ye.s. Woods:' . We·ought to b~~ng him back here and put up. a statue of him. Buhner: Y:es. ' - He's a very, very fine gentlemen. . - " .. · 232 / . \ (_ -~ vloods: He doesn't live here anymore, he moved down.,~tlier~' d td.n 't he. i1uhne r: ( He still has his ~arma here in Western Kentucky, a.ncl hP 1 s still somewhat of a political power here in :the [itate. But, he representsthe topacco industry up there. Woods: Do you have some more notes there? AuhnP..r: I think that's ·about all. I think most of these. Did we talk about, I think mention. Yes. I know we men-.-. tioned Sam Niness in here. He's the one that helped on the ho,ooo pounds cause it fit his organization just right. Woods: Sam, who?· Buhner: Sam Niness Woods: Well lets.- tt doesn't hurt if it's on there. - .. Bring it out. Be sure we get it. Buhner: Going back to the establishing the 4o,ooo pound· minimum, during the war. One of the gentlemen that supp~rted 1.t a great deal was Mr. Sru:rr Niness. N-i-n.;.e-s-s... ~o is still employed in ·the truck\usin~ss today; in fact, he's president today of one of the large tank truok operators. And this thing was especially suitable to them because with ~~~-~,, . .. ._ a tank truck there' is just so many pounds they can carry, . ' and they couldn't. very well overload, and so it was aperfect answer for him, and he gave a great deal of support to this. And th-e other man that gave a great deal of support was "' just recently retired as the president of, the Firestone Tire and Rubber Company. He was in .. the . Office of Trans porta- . • . ·• \ Bulmer . tion with us boys and he more or less was looking after q,. • ~~ the rubber end. And when we propo~ed this method why he said, 1 I 1 11 know that we'll support it, and I'll make sure that the other major tire companies will,'. and he said, 1 I 1 lllet you ktlow in a day or two.' And he·c_ame in ~~d said, 1Well, we're very much in favor of that.' So, we had a lot of support.on th~t thing. The president was' Bob. I think I-'ve got him in the tape there. I'm sure I have. Woods: Well, let me ask you one that is more modern. You know today us conscious minded individuals, we try to keep up with these Federal laws, yet. And I just wonder about these buses. If they've still got an in. If they've got an in with Amtrak or something. I was driving.-down from Chicago yesterday to you arid I'm trying te do 55 mile an hour on the road, which gets to be pretty hard to do with the traffic ~otng by you, and you get thinking, 1Gee, am I the only guy trying to live up to this law.\J But here come these Greyhounds. Boy, when -~ they pass you they're doing 75. And they go right by and there's state troopers sitting there in their'squad ca~s, and just looke at 'em, and you know, nothing is, said. So, I wonder if they are immune to the Federal 55 mile an hour ~ state highway law. But, they always did have preference. Always. - -. ... .. • Buhner - Buhner: Yeah. Now, there's one more item •. Woods: Good. ~ (, Buhner: In the passage of some of the.truck bills in later years as we're going along. Of c9urse, we always had the problem of taxes. As to how much tax we were to pay and all that. And there was a period that there was apparently quite a bit of overloading going on on trucks. At least it was pretty hard to explain away. Woods: No, 'No, Mr. Buhner, there never was. Never in the history of trucking. Buhner: So, finally I know we were criticized about it a great deal by some of those men. I think it was started in Indiana that they had this progressive tax law and so if ~ou got so many thousRnd pounds overload why I think the tax;tthe fine was up to fiye hW'l.dred dollars, or something iike that. So, when that law came up why we fellas pretty well supported that thing for the simple """"' . reason that in those days there was a tremendous amount of I chiseling going on in freight rates. And then we had the shippers~ it wa~'t only in the truck op·era;tors, we had shippers that.· wo\ld load your truck and tell you they. had . " twenty thou~a.nd pounds on it, and actually you had 40,000 ·t( is loaded and running slower on a highway than it does when it is running a faster speed. Do you think that this lowering the speed limit sraves fuel? 239· Buhner: I 1m not so sure that it saves any large quanity of fuels. I think there probably is some savings, but I'm not so sure that it saves a gr.eat deal. I think that probably a good case could be made either way on this thing. I think it depends a great deal upon the terrain and where - you're running too. Take out West where you're bucking a strong headwind it's bound to take a lot more power to move the freight and that's when you start eating up your fuel. Woods: And the hills. If a truck approaches the bottom of a hill doing 55 mile an hour and the hill is a ratltler .long on~, he's gonna have to shift down in low gear and crawl all the way up that hill, where if he can approach the bottom of the hill at a speed of 70 mile an hour he's gonna +un a long ways up that hill before he has to--- Buhner: That's right. Woods': Now, do you approve of these truckers doing what they did? Blocking the tollways. You had as big a problem as they hadand you didn't block any tollways, or highways. Buhner: I don't have too much sympathy. We were through.·· - '.-, -~, ,- .. Buhner the World War, and we had problems that were mUch greater control of their money and nobody e~se could use any of the monies. There were no administrative c~sts agianst the foundation because the ATA did all the work ~d paid the cost of doing the work. So, the public relation work that the suppliers and contributors did was-entirely spent by them and by nobody else. · Woods: Has it been a success so far for, the reason it was founded? Would you say? Buhner: Personally, I would say it has been ap outstanding success. There was, to start with, quite a question --- it I was questionable that the state association managers question the effects of it but,that was primarily s~mewhat on a selfish standpoint because they more or less took the position that a lot of that money should haye been given to the . state associations. That it deprived them. But, that did. not hold true because many of the state associations.that had their own publications still received quite a few advertisings and monies from these various prevailers. Another . -~-..~:; --'l Burmer thing that make it successful was that this was an effort on the part of getting many of these companies to know eac~h other. 'rhey all had. their own advertising firms that did their -- and once a year one of the top officials of a particular company arid their top advertising company, they would gather at the expense of the ATA, they would gather . at some resort area for a period of 3 or 4 days. And at this annual meeting many of these people met each other for the first time, and it gave them a chance to talk~over and compare notes, and all that. , It also gave the trustees of the foundation an opportunity to tell 'em what our problems were and what we thought they ought to say; expecially, if we had any particular problem with the government or anything like that. We would suggest that they, more or less all of 'em, more or less tailor their particular add to that toward that problem, in their own way in which they solved. And quite often this was done and it was very, very affective: Furthermore, we learned· to start with that some of the advertising agencies that · I were working for. these various prevailers knew practicall_¥ _ ......----cJ-... ~- ~ --- ]- nothing about the trucking industry and quite often we·had to ask them to change their adds, because they gave the.,- . ' wrong impression simply·because they did not know the problem 0 and in that respect it. was extremely helpful~ The thing has grown almost from year to year and it is now become a pretty good power in support of the trucking industry. Most of you·; If I· ------------ Bulmer people have already seen the adds. Take for instance, International Harvester, when they carry their add in one . ... of those large publications, it is under their name and .... they advertise~their roduct·, and somewhere in there ' ' appear the signia of Foundation It is under the sponsorship of ATA Foundation. ~ In addition to ,this a number of these prevailers furnis.hed the industry ~th some very, very interesting work. Some ~t ' 253 of the"m hired the outstanding engineering firms and developed certain general ideas that the whole industry could u~e. And almost every year somebody is doing something along that line. The fact that I personally have not been too active in it, I am not just to familiar with the smaller details of all this, but I do know that the overall picture has been very, very successful. Woods: Well as public relations and research, it's really I been very successful. You, Mr. Buhner, you were the longest serving director on the ATA, were you ·not? Didn 1t you serve 40 years. a·s a Director of the ATA? Bulmer: Let's see, ---- I.'m now in. my 42nd year as a member of the Executive Committee of the ATA. .... Woods: You're still a member of i~? Buhner: Yes, Woods: Well then you still, --- you·would by no doubt be the long~st.serving Director. Buhner: Well, Chester Moore and myself. Buhner 254 ' - ' Woods: ~~ts still on it too? Buhner: We are the only two left of the original men. And we were both on the ATA. Fo,undation Board except about two years a.go I was taken off. because I 8.m not an operator ,anymore. And when we ·had· an annual meeting those men are always accomP,anied or usually by ~orne of the leading 'truck. operators of the country, ·and then about·2 or 3 years ago about 4 or 5 of us dropped off the ATA FoUQdation because we're pretty much on the retired end of it now. Woods: Now, usually when the word foundation comes up;~ "' such 'as, the Henry Ford FOUJldation, and different founda- , . ~ - ~/ tions throughout the country, people look' at lt. open mindedly as an organization that has so much money that they contribute to founding of buildings, school_s, J:listorical societies, and they dona~e mo11eY to any movement , that,they feel is worthy within the organization that they are founded from. Now, has the ATA.a~ yet to your knowledge ever, --- has it reached that stage of wealth to . . where it contributes to start a building for we'lJ/Say a historical society or for a college. Has ~t reached that stage yet. · Buhner: No. No, in fact the ATA. has be_en very careful not to get themselves involved, in any other functions.· Woods: One other little important thing I'd like just to verify you qring it out so peop],e will know in the future_. - It's not a coverup for income tax. ( ( ' ' * Buhner · Buhner: No, it's an entirely different type of fund. Woods: It's a real foundation. . Buhner: I've wondered if the word foundation was the real applicable word to-use, but it was used. Woods: It actually is perforrrdng as a public relations. ._ Buhner: That's right. The fact that· each company who ... put money into this fund that th~y spend their own money. Woods: That was still their money even though they put it in. Buhner: That is their money and all to the ATA that's put in is out o~ the~r advertising, I mean out of their advertising budget, and so much is put in and that supports the ,ATA Foundation. ' . Woods: Yeah. Well, then .. }n reality. In actual ~he; one ~~d like, to ask you·. We do-have a Mr.. . · -"-.../ .. Bill Odlin, who is the chief ed·i tor ot Transport Topics whiCQ I'm sure we.'ll both agree is the lar~est circulation or which is the bible· circulation to .the trucking world' · you might say~ or at least ·it is to the Common Carrier. Now, you have a chief edi'tor th~re, and you have a permanent president there;,· and you have a permanent director of the ATA Foundation; np~, for an~9utside-r to llbok at" this .whole pi~tutre,·1;he moment we d;iscontinu,.e, the democra- " 7 • • . . . . tic co~ tee, or· the democratic£ pri~cipal which ~ t~e IP ... - Bubne7 Repor~ to,have a ne"{ president elected every year, to be backed by ,his l~bby~st: :and everything. . Now, you j have a three. man power that could actually ~~ontrol ·tb,e ATA.,"- ". Has tnat ever been ?rought~to any one's attention? You have; the president. permanent. ' You have the· chief editor· ~ permanent, you have. ·the head· of the Foundation, Mr •. ·walte:r:·carey, permanent •. Did it ever occur to anyone that . . these three men could gain control of the AT.A and the ~TA . . Foundation and have controL qf the· whole thing. or' d5 you • 121.·0 . . ' t!" . ' believe there is a:ny reason· ;for them to have this f'ear, or. that it might happen iri 'the ~ture? Bubner: Well; I haven '.t· b~en in any sessions in the last ..., couple ·or years to speak of and this whole thing is compara- -~ Buhner t1ve new to me and I 'm;·not ,too farniliar of a-ll t}1.e . - I ~- . - - . 'ramifi-cations that went;into·i't. I've neverheard a dis- - . ! . cusBion of what you 1 re· talking about in that .respect. I suppose some people Juld ~hink. that way and -~orne can •t.· - ---.. ' fJ Woods: Well, take a comple~e -outsider, who' never knew_· D..nything about ft and say he "sta-rts' looking at this f'rom a distance might say, 'Weil, this isn't vecy democratic~ -. .. Here we })ave a head of a Foundatiol1~ the head of-'thenews media, apd ·the head of. the organization !iS president and a11 three of them are not up for elections, and tl)ey are permanent, and even though these men founded all this in good faith and belief that it was for the best, for future some unscrupulous persons could get in charge·and these three men could control, and t.hat 's' the only reason I brought it out. Howev~r,·I believe you answered it very well when you said -that you brought -it out for the purpose - that one mart should represent for quite sometime and it would give a better n~e to the organization; everyone in ~he industry . would get to know this . one man. Now, in~ ~ ' order to offset that you do though have a new· Chairman of . . ~ . . the Board elected every year, is that right? Buhner: Yes. Of course, originally, under the old set up we had~fl,Chairman of the Board, and then had the Presi~ent-- and then_the Vice President. There were three men that started. They started as a Vice President. When they were e elected fi:rst Vice President they knew then that i.f they .. ' t .. ,' Buhner behav:ed themselves they would become Pr,esident. And then .~ from, P~~sident they would step in to being Chairman of tne .. f Board ol So, .Actually, it was a three year period. So the m~ who 'la:S elected President had ·a year or so of semi tr~~r:~g .as t,. Vice Presid~r.t ~ Vice ~reside~e had to serve . And in order to become a on. quite a number of committ- -suppose I ·was about the only man th~t. never .was a first~ice president. Well, you took over in the early days. Buhner: Yeah, I was the first President after Ted Rogers, and so I stepped immediately into the Presidency, and then stepped into the Chairman of the Board. And the man·that. followed me as President was Mr. Buddy Horton, a.nd unfortunately Buddy was not ip very good nealth when, he was President, so then the Chairinan.ok·the Board h$-d to carry on p;retty well . - ~ ~ . ~ . that position. But, I found out :t;rom·my own personal exp~r­ ) . ience that stepping ipto the. Pre-sid~n9y that at th~ end.· of ~ one year I got so that I knew what· was going on. Woods: Yeah> about the time you left office. · - ~uhner: Yeah. So, of tourse, that however was pretty we11· .· ..-- .. V. . .. -. Buhner corrected the following year because the Vice President · ca.me on. Woods: Well, whatever outsiders may think of this in . looking at it, it does have its merits and it. does have advantages. Now; today~ understand it. Now, for inst~ce, Mr. Sam Raitzin, Maurice Tucker's son i~law, and Mr. Harold s. Shertz's son, ·Robert_H. Shertze, whom yo~ and I both know, ~d now the president day Chairman of the Board Mr. and Mrs. Winship's son,.is the Chairman of the Board. Now, next year Mr. Robert H. Shertz, would have become Chairman of the Board. He was serving. And then I understand Mr. Sam Raitzin, showed me a letter here a month or so ago when I was in South Bend, where he is second Vice President, or Chairman, or Second Governor, or so they call it, he Hould in two years be slated to . become Chairman of the Board. Buhner: Not necessarily. Woods: No. Buhner: No. The second, third·, and fourth Presidents have no· particular rank at all. It. is only the first Vice President. Now, it's happened. Several times now it 1s happened t~at the firs~ V~ce President did not wish to, . and asked pot to step ir>.to the Presidency. That's happened . as I recall twice now. ·Mr. Harold Shertz, is one of them b'ecause he was, I think, loaded down. Woods:- Well, se 1 s the President of Rollins, and also the I Buhner ·. 263 lawyer, I understand. Buhner: Well, besides that he's the Pres±d~nt of the Repl.:lblican Party of the State of Pennsylvania. An(j he asked ' ' f that his name be withheld. So he stepped out of the first Vice Presidency and was just elected as one of the .ordinary •. · A man by the name of Schuster is first Vice President and he will then step into the Presidency. I mean.-into the Chairman of the Board. Woods: I understand today that the pressure and competition is such that many men are doing like Mr. Robert Shertz. Of course, they've got reasons. Now; I know I spoke to Mr. Shertz, and he said that he would have to w.ithdraw from being Chairman of the Board because he has too much work. And he says to be Chairman of the Board you're acting as the President used to and it takes so much of your time, and he said I can't give it. Now, I do knowthat I spoke to Mr. Sam Rai'fzin and he said, •W~ll, if I ever do become·,' he said, 'I don't know if I can handle it, or take it, because I've got too much work, and I can't be traveling.• Well, I believe we've covered that whole picture quite well, and are you satisfied with the way it's operating today? the ATA? :7 You as one of the Founders of ' Buhner: . Well, actually I'm not close enough to know. To really know. I'm not in position to criticize or commend it. Either one. '' . .. -~ - '~ '- '!!-~ ~~~-~ -,. ~".:: 0 -: L • ~ rll ng. 1 ( i . Have you heard of it yet·? I lhihncr: No. ,. Woo pre;>d1ct that the Sterling will ~~ably be ·the engine ' that wlll· replace·· thE!! Diesel. Of course,. "that 1 s progress. ( ~ I • Now, w~e~ left this s~al,l 1+_ cyli~d,e~esel qf Cwiunin·'·s-· and even they themse'l ve s llow and it must have a set of rules that it abidqs by. Without these it will drift away and finally desolve. Today. with Mr. Buhner we are going to touch upon one of the most important things of this ~ine o,'~ization and that is a 1 Report known as the. Buhner Report, simply because Mr~ ' ·~J Edward J. Buhner, was at the head of the committee. And . "tt this Report has become,ov~r the years, the Bible of the American Trucking Associations. Today, Mr. Buhner, has a copy of this historical document with him .and for the· potential~f its historical importance I am having Mr. Buhner, read the Buhner Report, though lt's rather lengthy near 43, 45 pages, going to have him take his time and read the famous Buhner Report into tpe tape for us. Buhner: Before I read the Report, I think it would be well to explain a little as to what brought it about. The ATA Executive Committee some two years previous to the beginning of this Report had se>me•, professional management , organization to co~e into the organization, make a study .ndiJ. G.S they wished +.c "be. "'ie n'~vised. theo that this COI'll'Jittee ~P.S a f.ITn!!geoen.:s in cffoct •.ritl:in the industry's ·o;rgani zntions. i.'e are su9!Ji tti1:,; to you tod~' ce.rtain find.ir:gs ancl our recol!lr.lendP..tions based. u~or. tl:ese fi::din~s. C'hese first raco~ser.d."tions deal only with cortetii: casic policies. 'i'herc \•Jill ":Je lat.:r reports and recor-oendations ns ti:w T):l.SS(:s, 1mt your cc:.:..r.ittee has not hE,i s-.u'fici,ant time ~o denl vdth nll tt.e p:·o'.Jler:ls, T;:ce foJ.ll cc;.zi ttce me~ il\ C!ii::::.Ct for its D8CJbe~s. It is not :possible for a state associ2.tion to- her.dle ne.tional probl.:ms o:1 an ind.ividual basis, therefore, it is necessary that; state associations co;;;bine c.nd. support orj3national organizr.t to tb.e state associe>.tions, as it should be; The state asso-::ia::.ions elect the directors t& for:::ulate the broad policy of tl:e nationld the,·cand~da~eg.are er..gagad in ·more thnn o·ne class or type of rpotor·t,ra.'1spc5rfation, 'tb.eir eligibility shall be determined by the particulP.r cL.ss or_cor.ference ."''rhich produces .the !';rea test amount· of gross revenue; prorideq., that in the :case of private .. .....car'riers, the €F,oss "cost ~f ;rend,eri'pg highway t-rr;tnsport.ation service ' shall be ·used in lieu of gross revenue. 11 · ""' .. I I '[ou wili note that '.;he Ey-''La\Hl as t)1ey are now written d~/ not estQ.blinh c fixed tom of of~fice for .b:::.::.. Direc-tors, rJlr.l the lacY.: of this has ml1dO it difficult to 'deternine just -who io n J2eD?or of the Jjoard of Directors· at any o-ne,. E;-ivt.Jn ti!ile. The present by-1a\1S pernit the appojntment of alternates, apparently" at any. timt:::, lL'ld this ~open privile£e huo to some extent nullified the . ~. effective control of' A7JI. by' tf_e af:f'ilirit~d otate as·socia~~ons, because 'of . 5. 286 ... ~- ( r -l-- the tendency to nend t: ...11in.formed o~n to L'leetings of tpe A'!:A ·Board of Director::. ~ !·lost of you are ncq~-J.nted. Hith the !~'-!thad uGed to seat many directors at our· na~iona.l co:we:1don. State as~ociution presiJents, · secrotarieG and. nana&ers w-ill car:rJ to the national· conventions blank cortificutes with 1-1hicl:. to certify ·Erectors. They will select ,directors at rttndom fr01:1 their r!lecbers Hila !:13Y _ ge at tend.in5 the naqonal convention. •i!These .men arlj then seated e.s C[Ualifiqd d..irector~ and.. it is ax:iomati~ that a f!:Teat r.JanY of ;these d..ireetors can have but very little knov/led_ge of Or intere3~ in the policies and operat~on of ATA. · This is a very-haphazard neans ~f selectins directors on the.part of .stz:de associations. If our,:pr~sent b{l.sic organizational policy is correct, they should select their directors in a oore res-ponsible manner. \•/e should ins~st UpO:b. a Sto{'Of!g pQlicy'of maintaining proper co'ntrol in the state associ'ltions tbrou.§;h e. :ru~ r~res~ntative, active a..11d qualified group of directors. .. He ha'.:e stated lD.at it is rc.ther difficult to determine at any oil€l time who a-e th;; d..irec tors of ;.c::A. Perhaps,. for t.hi s ree..son, the ATA Directors hrcve not 2.ccep'ted tSeir · respons i bili ties ih com1ec tion \·lith J..:J:A as they should,. ':'odcy, it is rather clifficult to carry out a refcrend.um vote e.mong thE directors. In an o~g~1ization ttat has approxioately 350 directors, e.nd •.-ti th constant chanse in these directors due tp var'ying state elect~on procedures, it is desi:,able thn.t there be ef:ficio4t m;.chinery by vJhich; " certain·uolicie~ C2!1 be nlaced befo:::-e the directors by mail for a referend..um vats. C'; sho'"f the neces~ity fa::- this we would like to point out to you a sikation tl:c.t existed_this p5.st ye~.:or(a very·ir.iportant issae in Vihich tHo stnte associatio'r:s too~ opiJ6·si te ·vieHs •. Each instru:ce concerned.. t,he "-re~;ulc.tio:l of air li!'!es i.n .intrastate tra.ffi~. :Each group Ofo.r as .!,.'::.;, :Jir~ctoi;S t'.I'C. CC!lCernetl. !•:ost Of you Ul~O a()Q.Uainted -Jith OtllEr nationnJ. L'SSOCi:.!.tior:s. !h!JY carry 0)1 .r.:.:fere!!ili.l.'!'l votes' among , their. director~ c.' w;;;l~ as. t!!eir L'lt)?b.:P ~~-~-'-, .• '='~>is is 'ab~uL:he only '"flY in {h"lch n· lar~;e or.:;n!::.z~t1on em fun.ct1o:1·i- 1:. ;~.:~Jor pol1cy 1.s to- be made by thu icciustry ger.t:n!lly. " ---------~-- 6. 287 .• "'' ' . I • . ' . -. •, -.. .... .. ... ,., . . .. .. . ~ .. _ .- "· • i t - _ : ) ,. .... . • .. . ·. .. . . :· . . j. • . . ·:·:.· . •.,. _ "'-·-.} - { ' :..: • :' ' '>;~~~~:~-~1 V·:,., ~h~ :f".:r~ c~r.,meri d ·~ ,~ fol·~~ wt~~ · · . , . ";_ -~~.'J.I . . · o ·.' '.,; : · ' ; . ' ·; , · ' ;.. • ; '· • ·~ . . • ·,':'" . 'f Jhis _ :·nor :: t f or: , d cctotl ·- bJ, affihated associatlon~t. :;;hahl· b~ chosen ·±· h: l." Glly .b{ t);o l'lepbo'rs ~f- .th!J 9.0rpo~\dh :;s 9Jnsti"tu1red. unP..er '~ ·.·.- .· }. : r~ic v VI1 a.·nd t!1oy ··-shoJL be ·alect ee.;·m1d ·c ettiff'ed .to Amariean . Ti:ugk":" :: I .· ~ I · V · . ' • - ;J ' , " - ,- . "' r · • _ - -. • - __ -: _ " '- - - _ .;: ' - ·- . .-~ -. :- _ ~ i::,.; -A:; o-ci ~ cartage opeTat~r ; . • 1 ~ :: _ " QJ:d ~me, n r.> riv~te .carrier:· a1id 'the other th,fee li!DY be select~d from : · . . ~rt:~· -conf~ e~1cu .:c-r ~ney ·be , t~ck o~t~a ·~r9:t rep ese :t ative~ . ~r :. ' · ~p oscntffxtiv es o.r o t her alli.:id: l.in es or~ busi~ess. .A..n aff1;,1ated. ,., . •. · ~ O.f' ~oci n.tion.may, nt t;1tl tirna: of ei ect1o'nofit s.b.'::ADi:c ctors~ - ··./ -e l t3c t a1t L:rQ,-nta .4-'(A di:rec tors and; when · the ·iirec to-rs are absent· · T l~Ch nlt,;m::\tCSj " i:( duly rt~ ed e.nd. 1JOS-S, 8SSing all the q_ualifiCC'.~. _ tions, of direc to!l ~ J:;,;ay .Se-rve '1n the ca:oacity of directors. u . , . - '· ' • . ~SCl . .i'T IV'E 00£-lMITTEE · . . . . . Our p;oc ding di~~ssion of t~e· Board of D·irectors indicates that the :Boar~ -· i s. e~~ ·s ible for 'tho gen..i;,f;akpoJ.tcy ~f .I ... T."'. • • r:phe 13oa.rd. of Diracto'l'$ ;elec-t's { nn :S:xec\1tive Commit-t;.e'e at. the na~t oual ~o::1vention, which committee is'' to J carry- ou't tlieir uolicies ~md ncmat;e, the . a.r'fairs of A'IA in ~~e interim ~ b.-:~w2en Boar~ me;tin g.s ~. ':i,entf7 s:tx -:ice-p~es~~ent a.re .~o1~.eJ:~cted fro~ ta1r. ~e;e~r-eglons e.nJ. t hlS r:lE:9l'l.S tl'i.at .,on~ Vl.C8-J? r~s1.dent. J,. S sup-p~S~ to rep1;e sen ·Thich'" havenever be·en re-pr8s nted u:JO!": the ;::::.ll. Ex€C.1tive Co~itt ee. · ~le :'alse learned that in ~:· .• , pr !any· state associations have never hacl wi. ···g. rO'Q.l\ th.at ~h ~y hi.ve a,bso.}uJ~e}x '{: no VO?;ce 1.!1, the rnMc'-s ent of .ATA. ; This can very :('ev.d~ly -be unde.z:.stoo.d , '~,. \vhan• you consiC:er thl: · 4- no 'vi ,rea,ds: 11 Vice-Presi.dents" .... Ret;ional. Each ·region. established 'Under ·Arti'Cle ·vr shall bee r~r;Jse nted by t.~~ regional · .• . . . ~ , . ; ~ /. . - . -. . ·~ ... ' ~ . •.' -8- T : .• ' e lect'ed · b~the ann~al conterence ot di~eC::tor . •,•· . - . .~.::.. ~.~ . · . . ~rf:~~uage ~h.:ould be deloted ' . . r • . ' ' ''Vice-Pres1.den1;s ·- States! .. . 'lbe mem~~ra of . ei.ch.:'assoi!;l!' (· a1 fi,·liated with American jrtlcklng 'isf:Joc~ationJt, l~c / ··s R_e_c_o_mm-- · repre·sen.ted ' by a vice-president chosen ~. (bY flll ~··t1~ . ·.· ;, l1 e ebda tion manfte~ determined by such assoc'iatton. . ln sta.~eiJ; (ttde~al·(d~~p ictfl or t'rri tortes containing mo~e· than . poe a~sociat ioni· fr i ~tllt'(t ~ · · '·' with this corpor.atio~ t .he •. V·ice•preaident sha ll be . ct1(?S.en JlCC ~r ~-) . tng ~~ the.method·provided ln Artic ~e ·· tor theA~l~etlon o:r sed change if · it were possible to -seat vic~~pree~dents ~-edi,;•~ily upon approval of the suggest'ed'"' change in tbe ;·. By Lawa. If the Board reject the proposal then such selection would ~e· of no sigbificaace. c t . . - . CHARTERS ., . . . , . . Your commi tt"ee project'd the following qu~on~: •' ~ "Should .a state· ~s~ocia t io"n, i 1which-'!·.i.s atf . iliated. wi~h. the " ATA:•i ~~y " in e~ch s~~te? ·t · '· a. ;;">f'~ ·r-:; • • . b. Upon what terms and. conditions should iranc titse ( c,-xclusive or otherwise) be granted to a state; ssocta~ion? :' · ; ... '·i . · ··; · .. · c·. Should such a "tranchise" be r~vocablt i' ~~-IATA-·? · .,· .,. .,. ' 't ~ . ' ,..., . . • . . : ., ~ . . . . . . . ·. • ;, ·' . ·! ' ·:•.' ' d. It a· tranchi-se should be revoca.ble ,, w~a:t ~pout:~ a cause tor revo.cation and how and '-:by .· ho• suuu~.; ~:.s sociation looks -=:>af. each pi'oolern from i ts:. pwn poJnt of view an·d in:..~ _ th e li f;ht of its own :persoi_le.l intere st and .to . t!:'\t"s time there has beenver:t ; .;,~•y ·. ,. . ' ; . . - ' . ~-· .: . . . - ~.: ' /- -, ~~_;. : - .OOICLE VII, fourth '?arc?..g?e.:ph, should be e.nionded 'ty stibs'titufing · ':'':1:; :Ph a ne\1 paragraph, as :follows:: "Any c-ha:rter,.c:.·of: c o.ffilie.tio·n, gr.?.!lted by .Arierican Truclting-Associa;tions, ,!ric:., to · ar.;~ state association shall be revocablft cist in certain .'- stat e s they be con tinuad as long as deoi rable but that in the future ·all " ' state charters sh0uld be · 11 exclusi vo. 11 th:er classes of operators, 'oth·ers perrnit :.,them [)ut more o·r less discourage their membdrship or do not ·actively -seelC the in,' some pemit them but sive them PO voting rights. Sone assoclati.ons have only - common carrier menbershtp. Such varied policies onl,y bring about conf\1-sion and there is ·a 6reat n9ed forunifon!lity in thls .respeet. We, ' the.refore, ·: recoli'.mend that the }[r). By-Lm.,s be VJ:!ended c:.s follows: ,.. . Reco~­ endtttio! • Article vp - M·embership. ~dd. to parag~aph 4[!' lut.!amb~r~hip in an:y asso'ci-e.tion affiliated with .Americ.:m Trucking · Associations, Inc., shall be o:per. to all classes and tYpes of motor carriers of property, ,.~i th fair ar....:! , a.C.e·quate representation and. voice for all in the affairs of the association. l-!aintenance of n state e.s~ocip.tion 1 s affiliation "'i th Ar:!e ri'c~'l Trnclting ' - Associations, Inc., shc:tll depend upon a rea.'sonable shb\ving at _ all tines of contjhued active solicitation f6r ~enb~rship of ;li classes nr1d ty-pes of r~otor 'carriers of ::;>roperty a..T'J.d fair and adequate representation and vciice for all such classes or types in ,the affairs of the association. Fron tine to tim9 tha Board of Directors or the Executive CoDI:littee· of American Trucking Associe.tions, Inc., r:w.y establish stand?..;rds of· organization and perfOI1!le.nce to be required •f nf:filiat~CJ. associations. II } l J, •· . REGION.U. CO:N:fi:R3:!!CES. . Your comi:li t-tee pro,1ected. the followi,ng question on this subject: •, ~-- I "Should regior..al units or SU:b-s~ct\9ns o,f J..T.A... b~ included within its for~pl_ org~izatfonal ~et-up~~ ' The trucldnt; industr.r is ve1..Y ·large. Its· members are large, medium and. '' ·· , S!nall operators. There ar.e contract carriers, eommo~ carr-ie'rs, p:i-i,vilte .; : ..;--: -'· carriers, and associated iadustries. Nw.y state association oembers ·eveh , find it difficult to at tend peotings ,.,i thin their· own states an . .t'!. so'me state · associationn h p_ve E'Jijust~d thenselves within their ovm torr:i torics. to prov1de for sectio!1al J;!leetipgs . ::.~-- When you consider the problem of time to at~end neetinss on r.. national ' bnsis you renlizo nn unavo-id.a'blo lir::it a tion n~on tl':e P.ttendance at · • meeting s, espccit\lly 'dhen prncticnlly ell of :·:~h r.ationaJ. meetings are : hQld in the astern pn.rt of the Unit ed Stp.tes. This is n.lnost )000 .mil~~ , from the Puci:fic Co~s t and the tim: a.-r:d cost r-equired for non ·t.o attend · the meetings 1d. inda ed quite a ~urdon. The sr. . ...-~e reasoning certainly con be projoct~d to t\1l.p.ntts of. the, United Stitas • .t'smallcarrie_r in __ · Virginia vtill- porho.l_)t. even find l t difficult to ·attend sessions in .. ·-.• · · . Washington, D.C. I • · I -' . .... > -11- .. . • . . . -···-...; •.. . /,ta cl ot!:> not h .-.v(J tr:e c ont act \·lith the ind1.1ntr.r that it sho\xld ,ha\re ·and · . . th: h;du:.;trJ ~r ll nover suvport JS A in the /wny it shov..ld be sup')J9>·ted, nll; J :'J:A be brcugr:t c l osor,c to it-s nernbership • . \Ye .r ealize tha~ ATA ·~ ·-~ .. c r~.nnot. ;,upT)or t a trame:1C:ous · orc;311j, z4,tion with o·ffice.s lo c~ted ih .most of tl tu prl;1cipl tJ citi,~ _ 'LLl t .?, r; re~1t don.l'can be do:Q'e,to br~~g 'the •. ~ ·s.- . .. ind ust. r7 close r t ocetho r, Th e eleven· \·/ e§t ern stat:es hava p:t:oneerF3d in thi$, T' l' :;pee t ar.ll they l!ccve ],c~rn pa;r};icip<>.ticm a . the organized::· acti' it es ·:· of ' tl\e trucking i . eat ioportanc ~ a:1cC . .··, there aunears t·o · be stron;,; se ropriate . 11 Confereu.ge" or: othe~- :neans th;ough' whi c}l. ation ·;c:a.l} be st:lm e~h') ~ \Vhat, specifically, ·should be done to provide for a.Ilq. ·secur e :' ~:;.. COI:lplete participation by private Carriers :in the affairs and -,::> ... ,· activities .of J\TA. t~e affiliated. stp.te A ssociations, Pri'IJ'ate. Carrier co·nference ,of AT'A?) · · y . •. .. • ~ ' ''i ':::' , . y .. ' '• . ·; .. -::;:, ·,··· - ~ . . .. . .. ', ~~.ro r uther diff i cul t to ·a!1S_w-er. · ·':lr,er e .iero UJil et ou~ _ obstacle s to the e4:pedi tious n olcing of any so~Uld ·decision.s· on the ~;,~.oove., -~ -- _ qu estions, · therefor e , i t w::. ~ decided. thn.t nuch nor e investi gation. ii.1d ( -. : study should 'be nade before the coo.'Jit t-e e Rtter.rp'ts to forr.ntla.~e MY· reconnendatio~s on these natters. ,.,. ':i'he che.irm.?.n of the cor.lf.'littee, fiov:ever, was instructed to direc-t a , .. co:::!IJunication to each of the· .h.T.A conferences. requesting considerable ,- . inforrtat ion for th E: use of the ccmni ttec and ~rout coEl!;li tte8 c:ir)oc.ts to' deal with this proolem at its nezt e~raJ. session: lllilvC8ERSHIP R.~S'rRICTimT .-, ' . t .. I.\ \ ~ The follo-v~iP.g cp. stions were :!)rojc'cted on this subject: ,. · ·. 11 (Presently, our o:rganizat ional structure provides for m~r.lb.ership in .i.;.TA· only throug.'l I:lG D"oership in an affiliated association. See ATA By-La\vs.) .. a. Should membersh:i,p in A'J!A be restri.cted to those who nre oe!::bers of one or nor ~· of the affiliated state .association ~? c. · - ·;, If r~enbershin in ATA s_hould not be .restricted to members of clfiliatcd· associ?tions, \vta,t ' systGm or" :9lM of ner~ber:sh;i.p pa.rticipation in A~J\ should, be ndopt-:;d7, . . I·,', • ·.::. c::> Should one raquirenent for affili e.tion Hith ATA be that an c?.pplicant state associatio!1 r,dmit tiLl types of ootor co.rricrs to menbership upo!1 ba'ses v:hich are ir, -E{C!.Uitable n..'1d pormi ssi VC of appropriate r c cqe;ni tio:: ,cs· or classes of c;-,rrit~rs · shoulQ.' be _ -; ·.- ., - -· .. .. ·- -· ,. 0 r e nt de t ed '-- an.cl in ;•!-\at {ay and to 'llhRt ox ton t? . .nd. 111e ·kno,.; of' ortTy a very {ew/placos;· where ,rleit;hborir.s stat e nssociations have \oJQrked out mel7lbersl;.ip J?P~icies'• . between t.henselveso. Sotle r ecor::nend cor.~plete dues ,reciprocity, j:lut 'it-i ·s · . doubtful if thisis the n.nsw.er. · · • : . '• · · ~; · I .. .cry. .itite st~ite opero: tqr .. : · in the affiliated sthte association in each s t ate through· Which he · ' · operates; howev'e r, yo up cor'li!lit t ee rocoghize s thD.t· such ~ condi ~:ion · · · · cru~:not exist ur:til state o.ssociatio:ns operate so '"B.f:t'i'ciently , a.:o; to make ' this policy a ~ou:1d ·financial. ·inve stne~1t fo-r tb.e o?er;;~.~ors. . ,, . Reconn- 1· Therefore, it i "s reconr:wnded that, for the present, oembership in ; SOlJG addi tion;il ·studies and. :1avo requested all ,. state associp.tions and COnfOr.)nCes to give US SU.:!h info:rrJation C..S tho ' £>.t tnched ).et tor :indicates. We b.:;lieve .,.this infoiT.ic.tion is pe rtin~nt in · order to Clnalyz'e the -scope cf our ind,ustry. From this infome.tion vr€"will be nble ·to give you con sideraq'left8.tistie?.J:. inforr~~.tion. · · ' . " . • ., / . / ~~· (j . :·;; - - . ,. ; i ., -"' · ' · - ;. ·: . ·, ., .; .. _ .. ... l .. : .. ;' To: ~ A.'{SRIC Al'T TnrJCKT:!.fG AS;30C lATI_O:HS• I NC, · 11.J.~~l~ Si.X':Gh nth St . n . ·.L ' 1,a~hi n 6, D.'C .; .oc·tober 17. 1945 .- \ The Executive Commi ttee of American Trucking Associations, Inc. Subj ect: Second Renort of theATA Commlttee on na tional and Stat e O~@i ,?a. tio!l. ll.sed per:son?.l interest ~n the affairs of our OO.. ~ia7 · · tioris wi;ll give added assurance of our getting· the gre9.test possible.:.ff;f ·:;: ' .·;:; ··:. · bene:(i ~ fro!:l them and of our getting for our r..ssociation money tpe ·'~~.niE:i '·: ' > ~ -...:.__. . kind of i·business return that ~e ex-oect frorri our inve-stments in our £1!ai/viciual ~ -~, bus i~e t ope~a~ion s. ~ ~ . , ; ~j:}f:l ~CD. ~·: / . .. Tl}~ ,CoP.'JUit.tee on Ne.tional and State Organizc\tio·n \·till co ntinu~ j.t 7:}: · ·. ·~ S~uaie~~i th. re ere~~e to the indust:c:>r IS bill. for . C\SS?Ciation act~~f. }· at.d. -, \1/lll, f.J?OTn t1me to tlme, report to t:1e Rxe.cut1ve Com.l!llttee P.nd t}J. e;-~ ;L~~utr~ry upon th; s· importMt subject. x x x x x ~ x x ~ .· \ · 0 • . .• ,.JJ!l, t . ,· . a PRELiiUNAH.Y INQLJ'IRY: The Commi tt~e on Ne.tional ct."ld .State Organization has. !ifl'O T!-G ORG~\NIZ.A'I'ION tM:en t h0 i!1itial stens' tO'/ard n, rather· searching· .. · .. :ii.TD AC·:riVITIES OF invest igatiqn _ into tho s-xi_s~ h {g orgn.ni zationai ·., ,. 'l'RUCKING.,ASSOCI.ATIOlTS. features. a."ld the pres~.t fictivities 11 of our:; .: . r· . associations ~=' · bot-li: C:e.t e ~.nd nati~ na):. ' ' . . J : - • ' , .. II> .. \ ... (. • -~- ~ The Commi tte e hf.ls cclled upon th~ m!':'-:'l'lagernent of ATA for certain detailed ' P.nd. ~)OC.lfic ·. inforinr-,tion relative to ' (a) J\T}. 1 s organization~ set:..up, · .(b)'.:' .. tho ·ST>ecifi.c; 'lic tivit·ies, carri ed o'n by ATA n..11d .ep.ch o,f its departments .• ·eJ1d. .· (c) rather deta~led repor:ts as to func t ion·s of ATA ~ta.ff. T!}embers ~ The '.' .. .- .· ·: \ .. .. . . ·' ·::- · . . ·--l - .·. •I •;- ; .., '. '.v'c;' . . ·:;.: '. - -.... ~ : -· ! .. :-3- • Jn oral man r14e r ·of ATA i s p res e ntly nr>.k i ng th£{'conplete check of wlll p r·ovitl c tht:l lnformnt 4:-em i·equost ed . ;. · .- · - - t! On Aug.l1st 20 , 1-9tt5 , the corrm i ttee r:iailed to each M-iiliate-d st~te .. ~-·F D.S90Ci nt i o,n H BUJ"Vey f orm re'quf4,s.t:tng i'nfomati;OU .R.p to the . assocfa;tiozits' Ol';:';n.llL:n t iona l !l e t-up ;-md the activiti e s in which: it engQ.ged .. _ Thirty-~even ot n t o n r;s cicin t ion ma ac- ~rs responded P:'ld we are attachili to this ~· secon4. r.epor.t :·. r cca'?ituh\tion of the d nt.c. obtained from . the se mc-.nage r:s;· It- is urged · th!'~ · · :.io u lo ok ov er cHrcfully thi s swm!l nrJ on 11 0 !-ganization a,nd.. Actiyiti~s of St~t e ':.' :rucking Aa~oci11tions 11 for we oelieve the.t it 'v!ill reveal the need for a . • • !oT e n t er d e(:'r ee of' br,sic unif or mity in the .. organi zation.ai·, set-,;p a.n..d act.ivi tiesof th_o state [~ nniznti ons w!'lich arc Units iri the ' nationt\1 federation. ';- · Hefc r e nce t o the summary will reveal tha_t no t\do .state ~ssociil,tions can be ea.id to b~ in unifor:ni ty gs to eligibility -for membe~ship, elec-ti:on ot ,. . .. - -. · "": .. s e lection of officers, .voting !Jrivilc ge s of m:embers, control or supervision of fi:tencinl and o th er ·ELf fairs, or nctivi ties. · In some . respects several ; [t8socintions J!lay have simila rities, but it is believed/ that no two can be.· sc-,.id t o be in · nll things similar and there are very wide differences among . '. tl:e!il in·rn· - - of the ':fe~eration to function ,vi th -cotpp'leta 0 terum·r0rk11 ' in the l:land?-ing: of . -·. - !:.c-.tters requiring efficie!1tly coordina ted e~!l play for best results, for :the;·-· ::;-_ ·. I:1formal express tons of JTia .. ffiliated with ATA·. 11 . ~uch rriinimu.'n sta."1dard.s ,,-.rould. m t be · prescrih(3d by_ ATA .. ,· · or 'by AT.-. 1 s E:;:acutive COB!'!littee, but \•iOuld be' develon~d by . the stat,e associa::;. · . tions theii1Selves a.11d. put · into effect by them thrOU2:h-: their repr es~n ativ,e s .: · . ups>n }.TA1 s Bo?.rd of Directors~ - · '.ort 'lill ·convey our conclusi-ons~ What has: been , given here ~s off~r~d ~ ~~-er that :iou mey ·1mow ~f (l_evelopme'nts t~us far j;·.L · . ... .. . c..nd may 1;Je 1n pos1 tlon to a.1scuss t~:.e se rnRtte~s w1th pt~er oper~~ors , and 41 ;. ~ · :';; .. ;: with the officers and n:embers of ou:::- st-ate a ssociations. ·The c ·ol'!llifitt-ae -~J ; r.: . , · ·· will be glad to have the benefit of. e.:r>s construc.ti'l/e ·sugge.stiQ'lls in· con~ ;: ·-( · ; . -·~· · .. \ nee tion -rith this impo~tan t subject .of ''Organi~e.ti onr and. .\ctivt'~ies of l'r,lck-. · · ,' ':: ·.~, :.f ing Associations. 11 .-, • · · • . ·-; · • · · · , · · •· ·I· : $;, . ' ,/'' :· ·: . ;. > 'Qi .-.; -· ; ', 4 ' / . • _ X X X X X X X _ ., c .. • . .. , , ·· .. - ::: ;- > ·- : ;; . OUll TRUCK - A sub.:..co ~~ ttee o~ t!:e Con:J~i tt~ ~ on ~r~ ~~? ~~ and. S~ate ~r~an~ z~::- ~\ · J\ ~ ASSOC!ATIOU _ tion .::net. v11th·th!'J. t~ur,ty -:-slx ~t.ate asso cJ,a.hon mana.ger~ who d.~o~ ~"'Q .. , M.t\Jf*GER3-- '~er e ip Wa.shing t. oii for the~:r;: 'ro1iluP.l confei~enc a ~n Se1i~mbc}f~ -- .~~, -, __ :;.;:·': 'te devoted the ufternoon of .September 19th .. to dlSC'\lSS.l.'Qn. ,.,,1th , ·. _ ·: ;- these manaE?;~rs. At other times vi rioun .sU::b-co:nmi tteeis of ;o\ir · · ·- :: . cornr!li tte·e have held regional meeti pgs with t!le Ilresicl.ents .·-·. We are :Oost appr-eciative of the cooperation ,.,e .ha'Ve re_ceived.. :f";-om ', the - · mHjori ty of the state association m.f.llle.gers • . Nany · c:oP,etrucUve. sugg~stion-w ·, , have. come from them Md. ,;,.~ a.re impresse\1 \·lith -the ,serious nnd ·businesslik'e·\ ·.. - , attitude vthich characterizes most- of those vi th 'l'h~ ,'/e· .r...ave ·come4 iinto >'. '0 r . • • "I ' - ' • • -· • . • ~t· / - • - • .... ,! ,,• • • - ·- .~ •..: -:-;', ---: r; -- .-,__- .- - • .,"'; - ~- :-~~-- :·: ~· -; __ -· --: ""~ There is so much to -J;earn about our cornpiE;l:x; anA high~Y : 9-ivers-~fied! ~ . industl"'J. ·.nu. -peculiar corsve.titive hof'lditi.ons, th8.t in·: _ I . - . '. ' . j. -- . --.. . -~ __ ,.-. .. ~ . . our ju~--nent no nan Cp_n reach a point of real effici~:--.cy :in;.ha5ers we now 'hava ~ee.As us 'to, y;elieve .thfl..t the majority of ·them are either. fully qualified for '" tbe~e important posts or have the necess~ pasic: ~ual'i:fications and. ... -ri th. adequate ,.actual experience w~ll develon. ,in. to . eiQ.er·.ts in tl;li s field.. · We .· think , we have tbe · nuc-leus of a coinplete corps of effici~nt ~s!g~c ip.~ion managers. VIe 'should keep end encourag'e ·th.os ei who measuie up ai)d shoUld seek . nt' an early 4ate to_ replace . fi.:ny Vl_ho f~r: · ~- rea"Son c.anno ... t ?e qevel,oped.. into the'· high:t,y . trained- men we m)l'st hci.ve :. '} It 'is of vital importance to OU(T industry that .. there be th'e le11st pos sJ ole t't.1rri-ovai, , in our association 'marrageme'nt; ·He must seJ_ect able .men and €ive then thE;! sup:Jort. encocragement and r ea:sona.ble 'nrosnects· for o.dv-a.."lc~ ci~nt and fe.r:~fly -security: which will cause .them to se~k c~reers in. the fiel,~ of truck arisocint·ioqc e-'1;:>.Gerilent • . . This', irl: _ _ ou.r judgrien~. ~s' a m?.tter c_· Hhicfi all of us ·· shcu ~ .give,:'}rompt an.ci con--~ . ti,nuing attent1on. •. - . . · . -.. , - :.-' . :, " . · The Co r..-nni ttee' on lTe.tio rif\1 R..l!d State Orgiuf~,~ - . ~. :- ={ 0 ·-r-t¥--:~:- . #V . * •' c\ --~.,. J. BlPlwe r I . -· -·· ·. • ; • , i1ai1"lllell ·- . . ... :.• . . . .. ·) iD • ~ : ,•. . .. . . .. _ ... - ·; :·~ .. -; · . .:. . . t . .. ,.. -4055 : .... . . ~~-C'I ·:.-.:: '~Jr:s :n;;G ASSOC!A'.: O~ TS . me . 1: :? ·1 •· t t-~ St •• :: ., ': uh~on 6 ,D. C. ~ '": .. ·cg'>);' T!'J.'3 g:r F.-\ ~IOH.AL d.!ffi S':'AT::i: OrtGPJ IZAT!Cl'! .· . Jw;.e 5, 1946 '1'0 : '1' . .-.?.A.' : · i \~/";· .., , ~~: ~; ,;; -':· :;:. ~ ·· :,~f· ''·,:r~}~·':,~-~~--~:.;r; -~/}-, ( 5). Provided thnt eac!-1 a~filiated s:?.t·J F.J~ n a ;~=ts na'Jl e sbol-liE-::;' f'l_t ?.if ,iin_,;;s' t.b.a t - tp , ·St{t.t9 ~;': :~. ' :··-' ':-:o;oo.ciatio)'i actively .solicits !!lem":.ler~lcin by" a1l; c le.:sses ffi,'i cl :'. yp ¢. S¥0 f' lli ot r - ~ - ' ' • . \1 I --~ :..-- X ' ' /. ! ~-~ c~rri0rs of :g:rtme~t;r and ,t q.ll tir:-!0 9 s i ves quitP.bl~ 1-~u'i;i~qu.at' li! , /-':. , . _ "}-;~ .... ·;: · rcprcsont~ti~n ~nd voice t o Fl.ll suc~l cl::1:ssos ~r ~~1!;3~ th ~ a±" ~ t ,:·;·'~':: :' '\ . '. the !:1-SSbClf-l.tlon. • - . . - -- - • -. - } ',, •-·,.'!''\ -.Y:; I • ' • • ~ • ~i'~--- ~ $;-: ) •- - !'- • -~/ ~ r~ "''-~~.~:-~ ~~ : , 1 ;~;: · ( 6). · Providod ·tint \ he 3oard of Pi rectors or ~~p1ftive Co 0.mi t' ~~ --~>-;~r~:"-~~~ . ' m:w from t~me to tim:~e ~tnbli~h stnn~nrds of ~r-~~l}fza tion ~~ rer!p~~ce __ ~~Z}-\:~{1:. to be r(JqU.l!"'d of qf:t llll'.ted asaoci'ltion9t . } . ::,~'-'0· · o..-~ ~-§-t,~C::;>.(. '' . . ·:. "'~ ;.~+: :.· I I (. ...• - 2- · (7). P ro vi·lad for r 0vocatil)!l.Qf t!?.e 2i:!nrtcr , or affili a tion; Qf .a st a to ssoci ~t ion whan cc.us;; t he r efo r aplNi\rS tmd fo r the ~~ tabli hmf3nt of- rul es of p roc edure ir. co'nn e ct"l o·n· ..:i th~· ci ses inv61ving ~roposa.r.C. r e co!:'.l!lendr1.ti ons f or the establishment· of. certP..in "Minimum , S:e.nd..u.rds of Ors anizati b"n' er,d FUnctions for State Truckmg Associations 4 t;:~~d~pf-.s of or g:1.ni zation and functions fo r sta.t y.sso ciation!l which J;tre · oamb c rn of . the !'?. t ioncl foder:>.. t ion. ~·Te co nc luded this phase of our work on - this sili:;.jcct at' .::!' 'gene rd l!l c:t ing ·o ( the. er..tire co~r:ti tt ee wh.i ch H.tcd in . by a large number of r .:.foro,senfe.-t2tv2s of 't!!..a s ta.te ass~cbtions·, 'fr.:O also vi.'Wre 0xten1.ed. the privilege ' of vi':tin~ u!)o n)h~ ;;i:l.~ rs b'e :~ ore t :r.e co a'7!i~tea . Tha ~ll owir. g persons we re · t e.c.onl..cd. ;:o.s OJ.tt.?!Hhn~ t=:a s ::·ssions,on tr-..a.t c.ey:· ·"",:;, ~ •. ~-~ ~~r. r ~· ~Y: "· ·"' · ',-... ~·1. \ ...'f' •• .A..',:.i~,. · ~ar J h • :1. B. ·-E!aGdon - ... ,.t. . .. . · ~ -., :, 1-t., 1 · , n nenry £. ~~ -ls~ - 1exas · .:q~ ·- Fi schcach - Ohio Edv1:a rd Go g -:>} in - Fa. D.-i:B . Hearir.. - La. ATthur G. ~-~cl \Ce v.;;r - 2-i. Y. J .. /. G-.·· Kn E:i 'o - ~d. ,, Ea ~-l rd J: Konko1 - '.Hsc. c ;I. ·\v, Leno :-1 ... Tenn. '' ' ' - ""-- . ' . ; .! ,.,···:· .;,,. ·; . • .:Otr: ';/.' -P. Archer ~ Ga . 3 . .rtobert :Baka r - Colo. J. "! . 3loo d....: Kans. c.' S. B\J.rton - lj . C. re~ M. Ca se, Jr. - W. Va. :::l.o ge r 0. Ci1arlto n .- ijd . .U. J;. Cud-lipp' - 1'cxa s :?.ay .!f. 0.1lbertson - Wa sh .• Sid Eland - '12-.slt... C. A. Ge:r tn.tellen - I·fo·. '·T. J3. Lo vs , Jr. - S . C. John F. Maerz - Conn. · . Leonard E. HcDanh)l - Ind. J. wa ~d innich ~ Mich. Richard. A: Horan - R. I. • I \ , ;.' . 1' , _ 1-l ut r i .: G·..; a1~ - . J . ~icho~ q. ~ In ';{. 3 . . Van V.ni zntions :u;d Will bring tQ ·ynu frO!ll time -tp time t~.Y upucific rccnm::J end;tti,.,nu 1~hich may result• frc.m our further cansidere.tion and. :; t u d .Y a f t lv u u b j ~J c t . " Eo1ch of the follo1~ing recor.::Jended st:'.ndards received unc:>.nimous approval by th l oo wh •) pnrticipntcd in tha ger..erc.l meeting .at Cincinnati. '1. - .. Spe~ifically, .. we · recommend thEtt ; the E:{e:: J.ti,ie · Comnittee forrnaily ado-pt . n:scc~- M:r:: l).-iTI 01T e: nd cstrtbl ish as rninim.:.:n ste..niards r,f or,ee..ni z2..tior:., functions and. ~ ~ .. pcrforman~e t0 be maint~ined Rnd t~se~ved.by ea ch state asscciation ~f filiated ~i th ..;!w;ican 'Trlicking ~'..ssociA.tiions, Inc., the following: MEJDfUi~ S·:!:')JJ'J-G3S 0? GRG.-\lTIZAJ'ION .. . '"E-.1ch st;:;.te 3.ss0ciation which b0c0mcs 0r rem;:;.ins a i!la:!lber of th.is fcdcr2.tion 5he.ll be in fact a nGn-profi t orgP-ni zation,' All inC"JffiO, OltUipJ:Jent fU!d 'lSSets Of the e.SSOCiation snall be the pr0pcrty of the gen r~l me~bership of the association and shall b0 iv d, stored; used and e:x-oended in such !:IFI.!me·r . e.s the r . ,. • . . . . . general !!lG!'!lbership Day bv c!.e::1ocrs.tic prtClced.ure decl.ie. Ho individual or individu~ls sh~ll have, hold or enjoy any priv?.te or personal --- 11prC'prietary interest" ' in the associatio~ or in .any of its c.ctivi ties or assets or in any incor:te frnm actiYities nf tl).e aswciation. 11 · 2. · liEach state 1;\Ssr:ciation bccrming or renaining a nee1bPr o!~ this - reder e.ti0n shall have a su:pre:ne governing body which sh3:~l 'be elE:cted by vote of th ~1 gen .;ral r!lt:mb ~rship. This gnverhing body sball rneet at least oqce e :1:c!l y.::.qr, at w!lich tir.1e a full accrunting ·0f the . _ _ fina ncial - r o:~.fi:~a· rs o{. the 0rganizati0!1 she.ll be rendered to ' · · the governing boci.y flnd t,., the mer:~b.:Jrship by' the 0i':ficcrs !ind manege- -~--. r::~nt a~d b;,' '·my cor.:r.1it . ee. or ~th r perating iD:atc · · 3.SS'"'cin..tion tr. ::~.ssune its rcspnnsioility to -.the other mcmoors .of tho fcdoJr?.ti0::1 ;;>:~d t~"~ the or~.M':ln s!J.ftlJ: nair,t:=tin Pn :=o.cti,re ar.d cc.ntinuing program d3sig!led t0 prcnote hi~hw3.~r courtesy ir..d hi~-:;h"BY arrd industri a l safet;r ami tr· r.oduce hig:tw.:ty and industrial R.ccidents. Such ste.te ass·~ciati':'n safety progrill!l shall include R.t la::1.st () Onea ~,,.,l .,t.,,.,,,.,l-..,r,.·· · ! 1 a "t· ~· tin::7rr l.·., l·euthe ecf -'-~'-'= s Cc. c; . ;..c,;,, u.... vnl:p S-9. ,, y !.:] ·,:. . . -- b J ' ~ l . • r . I P.l1 adea_ue.te EU.-:l:~e'r rof district nr e..TC:l P.e:r.oership !:18etings ~t Which the princi:9al cr:ph?.sis . shClll be t."]J0tl highi'IP,y C~" ~rtcsy, and highvtay <>n d l'n-'~'lStr~<>l c- c.f' e!-·•·· (1-.) tt..e +'n,..,., , r;,..:,., .<>r.d o~,c ·'- -:: n~nce of' ., ,., <>ct·l've · ... .. V..... -.:.- V(.!..J. v_l I U l~ J , .:,...:,; ~,.., _ .L~ -.. .. .l. . • l; C •• ::U.i (~~ .... .. .. s~fety C"!!!:::Ji t ~eO w!oich will C0rrsider \Hys . :mel ~e~ns rf pr0r:J0ting- !-. i,:?;h W-:t.V arr d ir:d.us trial s ?.f e t:r ir.. tl::e s t;·, t. e e.nd '"ill ~a i E t a in 1 i al: son ::~nd C00p.e r -'?.ti"r!. '.·rith '.'t~cr SP.fot:; .pr·"'!J"ting e;roups in the state a."l.d Hi th tl:e r:::t tinn-:>.1 S"'.f.:t:r :pr0i'!'rc.!J r!: ~z; tr1~ki ::--'io: industry;· (c). S('IJe S/Ste~ r;f a·~?-:!"tis ~r s:paci<>.l rec'"'gEi tir.n f0r s~d a d.rivi!:lf", pr13ver{ti0n 0f £\ccidents, 'lr:d. s'ifat;r pr0m:'i tir1: '0:r r.acb.::rs nf tha tru.ckin~ in clustr.r P.nd their .::~1--:yees; (d) p?.rticipe>.tic n by the .-\ssr:>ci.ti::n. 11 . -.~ 3,. ti:2ach st ate a ss"Ci :.!ti"n bccrm ing or re.r:!aining a m.::':> c rs r:f ccr.:me rce, etc., ?.nC. shall i~cluC.e pr0r.pt r ebrond cn st nf nf ~'nnat i0n, li terF~.tt\re, d.!lta • - .. Ei:1d publicit;r l!!?.t2rinl furni she:d b;r the n::'.ti:on'll I '"d.e.r<>.tirn in COnnection ~ . . ~ · Hi th any nst!."r.al C::1paigh r: ~· pr•:>;;r:tn ~hich hf.\S b een app r. ctivi ty ancl r i: S3) 0nsibility Hhic.h shc';l-1K .~c · ..: rv "c1- rr e.ssi-'2;n i:•i t o thv r.P.tit. n?..l or n. nization, to thG inll.ividual state·. ':; s.~ch ti ns ''11C. j l) i r: tly tn th8 ·ri'1tbn:U. :fec'.cr .li!c ti c:: s \·'·" i c ~. she t:. l ~ b e lei' t Grit i r e ly to",(he :~t:~ ~ ~ ;1 s J~· ciat r; s a~ fe t" :::d , \vi th the na:ti oYHil as~ciati0rl :. · ·. ;· ( r ;· ~: .:; c: i;t til '1 :3 d: on i ltilc, rt ici~)at ~=; cnl.y.· U:"ion reauest cf the state ass::ciation in t!: c stnte ~·ih se e,i:i, s1~ture i; involved a.'1d only to t~e extent su :;cst12d. by that. stl=t:Ce association • . / . 5. CotL'1ty' or :-.:t:J ici:!)?.l ·tp .. xes affecting motor carriers • . __ .;,' 7-:lo cc:-::r:JitteEi :ree~r:;;wne .. s that sw::h na.tters be designated as . etctivi ties cr ·"tt'!)¢tio!"l.s which shCluld "t?e loft entirely to the ·,state e.s~iuti n / of the stn.ta , i:n which the tax is levied ·or . '.Pro)os e l'.. , •.-tith the ne.tic.nal u·sscciati8n -- or associations f.o!:!iciled in oti1er statas - · cooperating or pa~ticipating ·only. ··· u~cn reC!\est of •tl::at state assccia.tion e,nd only to the extent ·• ~>u;::;:::-·astec. by ··:: .. t stc.te ass.ociation. public relC'.tions progra!!l: e.. f'-'1d , .P.dverti si:J.g ,. , '!:>. .. Rfii.'~ io p cgrpJ:Js. •· c. E . .<>:terie.l :or scl:oclS, li"tlrci.!'i es, etc. r c. . ·-·· ', > : . ~ ..... .... ~. · e. ~· ~ . H0vics, 'il::o- slides, etc. ·Public n nenr?.t:ces ''i.Jy srye,kers. · .. · ticl e s ·i!1 naticnal ,nngazinos,'etc. '. • i • • )- " ":· .· • • .• ·~ . · T!!e trcor:n1ttee rec r:rr:1ena.s t .. e fcJllc\·'lr.·.·· ~'1 connect1on \•rith . ' ;~• · } , It ~:1 s 6(a); G(b)·, "16(c), 6(cl.), 6(c) nne..: . (f): ·· · 11 ':':!•. ~e1. r .. ?.. tio nal "P:J 1 icy ~ orgeni zati0n .s tc 'tho scc'l")e ::~.-'1d nntt~re of the nat.i.6nnl . . \ . r•c,\r c rtisi:;F; ~ro§!;rr.J:t. 11 '. .. : :. · • . \• .,.. .l • • :'Eiler. st11te n.ssocir,ticn e1.nd its coU!lty chc>.pters br other ~~u"t:l-u!1its, if n."ly, to s e e t!:r-.t there .. ~s no confl.ict .:of pe1licy, clntn., cr idprneticin ns qet'laa!i· stp_te or loca l · ; n;1ct1e w~cf :for \·thich it, is to oe re8~oasible. 11 · , 11 I'~1e n['..t~o?jl rsa:.;.iznti~n ~o ~oi1sult e>..:.ild clear with .the [l':J='ro~rH'.~"e· s ate assoc1at1on ·'or associntions bef0re the r:atio!1P.l or;a.) i ,zation lL'1dertc:12,ticn to cooperate closel;r 'lith the national ·.- cr!-G.nization to :rreve:1t co~1:nict of pclic~r , d.atit or infor.:1e.t1on betHeen ~ntionll-rr,"'7't ly l·'n-r-- ...... th<> Subc r..o-;-,-itt ·~ e on ...,(. v V I"-" V-.-.1. ' v .. :-:.- ;J-. ,-•;:' .. •\1..&. •. 1. ~ • .;.G . . . "·J.-··- . \J Le.:.~~ rcasr!'! s i nV0 l-r,-ed. .Sh uL'. :;e ft~rr:.isheC. ··t0 the Sub-cor.1!.1ittea (.. .~• , .. 1 "-'f =-:- ic-l, J- .. ,."'.L. ... "c·"" .l ,-. f -~ ~e ... "'_ •r.t • ~ ., '?~--C:..: "C •ltl·v ... t.:: ,·, v .,o ··:--·•-UVt:!c;; ,..., ~ ... ..: , ., ~n J.~ \I " rde.. -r t,;,a .L ... .. ... U. Affl~ -••1 ntl1a r Rtn.~~ n~s-~ l·ntl·C S n~ rth~ l; ll n~ Ql'"t {n ~ ll 1.·~ 1~l or-. ..." • , . c; v ..... c .. ~ l ... lj '" .. _ '--·"' · \ ......... ''· ~ ...... C.-I. .1..-·~ £.- .. :'• ... s ta to trac.c c r:-:.: '--...:.1 i zatir:.ns 2 :.(; tL::.,c_e rsta::C. t::o· .s~tuation. n .. 7(b). Sizes ~nd. i·!ci hts stC'..!~.:!.[' r-.:ls: 11 T::c '~ itiht;l%)n ~nd. · c~c\·0 lo~: 1ent c.f .l ::-:ir.imu:: st •'l :!.:l ~.r C.s r::: :, ch icle ·size.s ,.ticn of the A'2A ::Sx,: cutive Gc :x:iittce with r o:;v-;ect tc t!~ c circ,0.sta-'1_ces, CCi!l .it i.' s c-~~d r 0P.sn:1s 1~0qt1iri::~;; its . clc~ rtu.:::·e fr"'~ est['.hlis!-led ~lA.ticn;.l P?licy. ~ .. .J .7 .. -- -· ... \ . -4- . . .. - "">d -~; itL .t :.. :l r. ~ ·i•.' lOTJ':: ~':. cf r: :: y ;:;inimUJ:'l ctand.e..rd.s o f · .. • ! . ; 'c. • l .:: , ..) ..' .. . , ... . J . ( ·..... ···: . : - 1 ,. - - · •. •• ,. ·-~ ~")l'c..;tio l :r J- (l. .. n . t ,...• -., c~. -~- ~- "' -r ti~"-"l4 ar·' :-~·- !',~·~ r; r . t.: c-r itr1 t:,> \e·i ~hi:;' ~2 :·: lite( . Ste.t e s' B:1cll .be a.Ilvfictiylty ': :) ... : ;1! ". to as:Hc ·j/,ti.c :1s ~.• ::Jicil ecl in the affec; t l3 d a~ r --- · • ~ ·~ :: r.i t -. r:: , w·J t 1 : ::.he 1: .rene: ti c ;:: 11 Ra ci~roci ty ;;romction, e:r.cer>t - : i c::.nl asso:::iat i 0:: o~ :;- er atb. ;: cr :rnrtic inat in~ only upon r eGCl cst r:· tr.,; s t nt e assc ci 2.tic !:S e.r. c~ cnly tc tl:e e x tent SUf;?:ested Ly t,;' .; s'::\to :--.s -ci n. ti ":'n s~ 11 · . ·' 7( C. ). F.e :~ li ry or ;>lli--:itive st?..te taxes aiBed at out-of-state t::-uck rJ-r: e r c.t r: rs: 11 !l e cl.esi {0?..tec. P.S :;.n activity o r function ;-hich _ sh·,··.:L'. ~e loft e !1qroly to t he st,qte 1trt~ ciati f the· state . :~ ,. :: ic~ :1.:-:y S'.lch · txc Ls l c;vi e 0. cr nrb:'losocl, with the natioiu!.l - •.t r;. -- c r a s srci r.tiv!ls 1osiciled in, other s.tates- .~ .r ; cr , a rticl :?:J.ting r.nly U')Cn request of th.'l.t state cssc.n.d active-ly :!)A.r tic:;ipa titl.2;. 11 ,; . . ,, - . ~ . ·.· rp -, e -;;' .. c cutiv" Cor-JJi t t:ne --· .L..I _ ,. c .; ...... .: :.I on. Jt!.n e 6, .1946, referrecL .to cur co nr:iittee two DRtt e rs: ;· ( 1) A le t t e r ~dr se .' t o U.'1de r G..at e ci -b.rc.h 4, 1946. the Exe cutive Cc;:u"!!ittee by H. !3. Churah, .. __ · ·.,.. 1·!e c'cesir e to~ r e:rl)ol"'t th P. t l·[r. Cl'mrch Is le ttcr is includ~d in the l:l nttcr ..... i t h r espect t ('. the ;..z.;. Cr:1feronC'CS >'h. ich i s r..o; und.er co;::n itt c::: e.xa-:!ir!c.t i on. Tl1ert1f c•rc , no· fin f\1 r oryort or co rn::le!l.daticn ~ 'with re s:;ect tc. ~is ~es tion s cp'l be · r:lnd.e lu"l.'t':itl Gur r eport ilJ. ' ' ." ·. ~ ~ • .r • - ?2CO:.J-3::-Dx::: IO] ---5- ~: ' ccnnuctir'n \vith thr.~ sttt:ty. r ~~e ,Cor-.zlittee has ccnsidered this rfldtter:o e....T"J.ct. it 1s tf:e. t .. '··· .. nossible snecinl c~ues rate fer application by el!I.Cb. state asS,:,cip,tirr: tc 0ut of stA.te-c~rriers. I Our CC':-:-mittee h?.s studied this :r:-1ropose.l ?Jl~, it is cur .·reconr.1endati0n that I ·r~v CJ-·, . o· . '~~ . ) ..-.-...,... ~~.!J- I 1 .. :\TIO:T .· . . , X X X X X X X ~;, f'l'.rther rc}!crt ,..,ill te sut!":",it tee. \·1!1. en ;our present studies sufi'icie:: tly. . . ·.· '\ \ \ \ \ - . __ __ __ .; ·i ·' ·. !*" - ·:: -'= : p TO : A!G:a i C: .iJJ ;ti ~{! G ASSOCI .f\TIOH~ . ~1C •• H 2·1 1s. t h St. .. ::. '.i., Hashi!lg ton , 6 .• D. ,c .• ' ..:I? !I '.i.' ?S:E 0~ 1 n;~.TIGPAJ" £ill s~A 3 o~GAl!IZAT IOH January 16, l94:7 "! e ::.:):cc 1 ..tt iv-e orrtm t~e of .AJ!lel:-ican Truf!king. ..!":jocia t ior.s·, Inc . - ST.'BJECT: Fifth Report of th~ Committee -on liatioiia1 and State 01•gan izati(;m. ; ~' In this report we >·lill cisal Hith three subjects: (1) Uniform dues foi' \ ' I s tate tP.l :i:: associn. tions, (2) Ur.iform names for .st§l.te trucking associations, ( :.3 ) Ort ~ization -'r.u:: i ttee on 1/e.tional a.."!d St.:1.te· Org2.ni za.tion has made· coris.iderable 1.n,qu1ryinto the organiz.:J.;;ion .:-nd o:peraticn of th·J t '2r. EA Conferences. Surveys of fact o.nd opinion ha.ve beeP- oncie, .?.J::l. i~for:-: at ion h2.s be en. · ooti!iried directly f.rom the Cor:ferences; frc:J the St[!.tO a.ssoci-e,:i ens; .?.!ld fi·b:;:; officers, man-a.gers and &l :-.-:b r~ of the confere::ces, -"ld so::1e stC!!ldarcl.iz.ation i~ so::.:Jd of t[l. se t:~}ngs. ' The- C0!:":..~ittee l:e.s clso YL0ted th-::>.t sonc s t::>.t8 'l:;s0ci~tior:.r; apparently -fail. tb 4~:.Y.:e a dcqtBte provisio:1 for prU'tici:::>::-~tic!1 i~ t:;.:;ir nffr,irs by all ' 'of the v~ i· ious t:,!J.JS of cper2..to·rs. \·l!:o e.r c c~ rcsen"': d C~! t::-:; ~ ::,.~-~ Go·:--l.f erer: ces. ~Ve huv-e even - ri.iscovered :.::st~1ccs in 'o'/.r::.ch ono IJ:'.' ::.ore t:r:ics of ccrri ars }:,-,ve bee-:t fortidden ar discouraged frci:l l;o.rticipn.ticl: L: s;:.:cte .ssoc :in~i ori .<>.:fi n.it>s. i•ic b(3l.ieve th0.t -··. there is r:~ uch roas for i:::prov e=:e~-:t ir tt.is !'e :::p.:: ct "-.:!Cl tn·:.t the· ofi'icers and nO,nagers ., of t!.1e statt! nssoci::ti 0ns s:wuld. d.irect c~e.ful u tt ention to the possibilities· ·1 . af instituting 2nd ::::a.intai!lir:g ~e rvice n,c(ivi tie::: Hh ich Hill benef it nnd ' appeal to .t ~~1.;:3- -pr_ir:::c_q respo 1si'"oility fc:..· se-llins- A~~ Conference De,':!be:-s Up::>!( p8.rticipnti'Jrt i~ t!:e i r. ci.ividu..'!l stat e 2.SSGCintions . rests . uiJon the s tat.J nssocin':.ir.::cs. 'le 'beli e v.e t!-~::t it is q_ucs~ion .ss0d.iticr..s :". .. 11-d. cooper ate \•lith tru:: . . s~ntt) af.:sc8i.at i r-·.:-.s in""t!:le cu:.l cL ng of enrle..:·ged. .sti:;bE:rs::ips t!:r·:mg_l{ the dcve lop:1eq.t of prosra..:i> o:' s~~·v;ce z'v r t::.e .;,c:::'::lc:i·s 0 r' a:::.c::-, r;f the .Cq:1fer.;Eces . Clearly~ · c 0np lcto C::Jopc:rn.ticn ·at:'~·.-; .:: en tee St[!.t:;e .:cssoc-::>.tic ns , ~he ).TA C1l!fo:i·cr.ces a:Hl .A:'A,. i tsalf, is· in order r.t f'..ll tl!':'.os. Our CocDitteo r:otic ea thnt thorb is r~s e~tlv sone looseness in connettiori •·' \d th tha se.t hois of o:o a~2:t'ic n of t::e .:'C-:... Cc~· .. fer.3 :·:;es, in\Y:>fnr ~s corro1a.tion -:Ul-d c0ordina tion of ~~ctivi: i..:: :> e re cr:-;~c, .c:r. . ?or· r~stn. 1ce , t:--,e r a is appnrent1~· no· o f ficinl ,procod:.tr·e ' . .J.Eier 11!-.ich t;..e Cor:fc r c;,c8s a:cr \ii tn .1. I'.~. :pr ~per , in connection wit:: :~c:m y nctivid.2s in•.th ic:: t!'!.c c: ~!' rc:~ces e~·. ;;·P.s:.l:r be ur-.ir:.f-Jrned Hit:1. r e S!> '-'Ct to p·cgre.ns or proj, "ts U?On '1 :-~ich c. c,:: :-,f ero:::-=:e ~.:n '.:> ·e eng::-:t~ ed "nd '"hich t1i&ht poss,j.bl;y involve questions ::;~ c:;r,flict 1-ti,t:1, or dy.p lic ".ii0r: of.-.'::-. p oliC"J or act ivities. Our Coru.1ittee feols th:~t t!:ero i!J :v;,; d fo:- ::-..8 develo'Jne!:t of ar. est"-Plished ' ' - ~~ I , ( / ·.! ' .. ·. -. ..: ~ 33 ... .314 I· ' - . . . . ·; . . .. · .. •· - ;-.:·: ··:· : ..:.:- ~ • r'J':"~ ::. -. ,:.: c:: ;[: e ~e n -. C0 r: r'e r enca 3 1-1~ich r' e-po-:-t .· their n.ctiv1.J;l to t.t.he · 1 ,n ·: t crr~~·-'1 zat io :J :·r; r t ::c pu.r po se:s o f co o:-d.inntion, i10 re effective diea~t'ila.t~6~ : ~ 0 f : :-.i'orrn l i o r: ~h to :iovel0p ::wnts it~in : t~ 8 industry n.nd prevention of poss\b~e •. i~:t:.1 i :· . . r>ol i c:; ,or d:.1pl icn tioncf efforts. ' -. -~ · .\ :J a l' .Bul" Qf its inquiry ir.tO t~e · or gllil t:l! ~~ and -activit i'CS of-: tfi~ :..~~r ·, Cr,::fero::ces 0.:l' -. :.:. it :ce !:as deci.C.ed to C0ritiD.ue- l ts study of the subj-ect ~ ' .. I'n- . - ::-. c :J OL'.!'.tir:Jeht -i a fe lt by t] ;~ Co!:lwitte-3; th..".t i't \•rlll be well to npprise t}le . ' :::xccu t iv l:l Cr;::-.!J it te e, tl:e Conf e r ences. t"he !:: t n-to associat ions and other ir.terestedl·;·d ~ e :; of s'Jr::o of .t:-:o idaaa 1-1 ~d c..'-: ha ve bc.en aci.vnnced durihf;. our consideration cf .1: :;,Jr:f'o.;re:1ces ?.r!l. t::eir c' c tivi tics~ Go nso qu er:.tly , ciW. cor.:w.ittee is ' pres·en ·ting· . tCJ t l: e ::::~cecu::.ivo Co::::::itt"oe at t!"li!:i ti!:'!e n list of purely tentative proposals vTi_th c;:> t'.o l'eOl~ust t:-:.ct:Ji::O to a selected r:w~J~E: r of A'I'A1 s a::f Hho, in. turn,· .. i·Ji l l . L-,z'•;. :..T ~:: e st:1t e D.s :) ci~t ions .rt of its L18::!~ershi-p Of tJ:.e ue.;"t,ing~and ,., .. "' :l 'JIJ..~ · .. l"'' ....., ~ r. l...J.;..., !'f' _ ...t'i . - :oJ.,· , •. · -m . ... . .,. .: "' l""'.=~ ~.i. , C·JO:!:>~r ... ~ L ..... 1-J __ o ~.~.~--::. O.L 11 e ,J e -., "~n • :>-b.l.S, .l eco .. ,r..e •• L..C:.~l.cn . lr;ta::d.cd. t.o t:!.:pplj~ to TJe c: tiq:;s of E:x:ecutive ~onr.1ittees or goverrti . ~~ ro:.!:!:>s, Ht.ic:;. ;.:eetir.gs ate not ir. t ::o ·nature. cf f;enern.l r:wet.~ngs · ~1old L'1 n p c'Tticul:tr s t:ctopFbnriJ.y for the c·c.nv·enicnce of the : ·~ i,,, !J;, __/7... f( F · 4. :::-:..:.~ · cv-0ry nanbcr of ru: !lffilintcd st~t c. rissccinticn autcodt.fi bup; i:-.c:luc.i n[; -·the ·r.10thod of finruicini; the Confe · 'i9rlC.o-hs: '\ * ~ * * * * ~ ~ * *. .. • -: ·.·: ! ,',?l ·., , . . ···- '; ... . ' .,. l Because of· the ·ever-pres.ent problem, incident to the finan~i~ of · the .A;-:;A·· ferenctE and their ncti viti as, the Commit tee rocogni zes thC!.t it is probab~y ~p:r' cal· "nd perh~ps . inequi ta'cl 0 for the Conferences' to unaert~Le to .provide fm:l;i. tte·e feels that t!-1 ing of value to .the Conferer.ces cnn be '" obtained by them i: they make· adequ"a..t p_rcvision for the inclu~io·n in . their m~obcrships of all the operat'ors--of tl;leir · t;yr_pe;s sert th!'.t \·lithin its mcmbcrs~i:p are included all of' the operators class ,or t.~>pe 1-1i1o a~~ oembers of tha 53 ste.te 'l.ssociations. \·le tni-~ thnt a ence might be subjected. to q_uestion, Hi 6 respect to. ~ts right to spe.n ~esent lvhereby in g;ood standing of the 1e~~1 the Cor:.fe:::-er,cc~ ;,r:.d. h~ state [:';sscici.:::!.ticns wHl b~ -/ -'' · cl.i:J~nP.ted and en:c?urnr:: enent 1~ill be: i,:c·,~ for c1osercollnlio.ration h-:t\1een tit~ Co nfo re!1ccs and the strtte nssocL'.tior.::;.' ' . - . ..- !r2C0i·~Si TD-:- The Cor:mittee recor:.r:12r.ds th:".t ench of the .t'I:.!.. Crmferences giv_e sertous · .\TIOH thought to the .:ldV:'-'1 t~gc s to oe. dcriv~.;d irof:: :.~~e developnent of an •· . ·-------, nrrangeoen t ~ urid.er "h~ d.1. cll i.!1> Iv~ .of the ~~ .. f~lin te4 ~ tc..te ~qCint~oii will be cons ide-r0cl as !.1cr.:bor n ·of t!'e ·cOrLfC!'G!1C OS ;v-,d 1iill he:vo SO Dd renresentation .. ~ and vdice ih cbn!erenc e ff irs. - . ..; -. ~ ~: !T;).lvi3S OF 1.']A CO :tT;E:l:S:' C-:;'!S ~ -~= · . . ... -- '. -..:;;- The Committ c'o on l·btiona l a nd State Orsanizntion believes thE"~ t each·of the eATl. C,onfcrenqe!.l should nctl.pt a nn.r.1c 1-1r.i c!: HiLl s: \v cle~rly its stntus as .~ tomponen:t pCtrt or the Amorican Trucking Asnoc.i.:-.tio'ns I Inc ' -le believe ~~..c1.t~. n pro:por na~aa for ~ .. i '' . ·;-'-' Jlj i ... :~ r: ;n: . ~L u i:; · '' -- ~r ~~ r. e of ... 1..l!) ~c ;vl t!~- i~ n.g .sfW C1. at-"l. s, _ ... ~- ;J: , 1 .. , " . · ·. : ·' ': t ./1() ~~o p , i 1; n ~~-:--;:-;:-;-:: ,c; I) l ~ :';l :; • ~J){! . DY, ea$fl J~~~ th.:; CG!lf.~~ et:C es .'h·p. r:·r • ·~-=- ( ·'t., ;; '.'. : . ' I' ! IJ' l L l! d •! l' in .l. L c j :; t. o tl 0 +'·r;: lj ·., i ~' .t ~ u··l u ,· ,.1· t···i · 1t ' ' ·•r i c r· nf >l c;i•· r. ir. ~ -r1 inc •i c f ·,p>,;'ol ic . 0f fici:1.ls . ii~ J ' . th~'.t t !'l c: X:::'.-.. :0xocutivc Qor.mittee ;:;nd -~he A.'T:.~ Board of Dil~ectors crtll · up,.o~1 the nember- 1) -: llhtP of e:l h-.-'..r~'A Coi1forence, whicJ:. oes· n.ot.presentlY t.r>.ve a nnue .'l::i·ch. ccnforris to ·/· . "'tl-)i S St 1~. t o tivc . co:lsidernticn to trio c.d.Vh...'!t?.Ses tc the Ccn.f.:rcnce anJ...to the .. ' '·· · .;} I , to.ol.\ • " I ! . ~ r · , ;,, •.tif"..ft~:lized inG.ustrJ' lvhich will result frob aiopticn by it of tr!e su.ggestQ.tiJ.nane an~.·:·.· ~· ) ·. / .. :. -- -\1.r ,e th:-1.t o::tc h such c onference -c.-:.,nsicier e,trFr v0lu..11 t2.!.''' action ir!. . ti-iis respecL , "- 1 ." i ,, •:$~ .. ·\ • . " ~ . • . . -- ~- -; . 1· -,- I .. ;.,:..' ,j 11Ar,1A-ATA coF:?~ImE" ?:r. . .;.~rolrS:-IIPS . !,l !) ?:?.ocz:::rrnE •· I ~ · • tl .. J Frol!l thfl. , inception of the \vork of the C·Jonitfee.bn .H:itioh:il 2Jld Sta_te Or aniza~ ,~";t tion, 1-1e hnve been m·mrc of the . o~istence of c6nsiderr..ble U..'1certa~!1ty as to the , !. rcl:,.tionships 0etNee!1 A'.I'.A., the }.T:.;. Conferences !lrui the affili2.ted st.:l.tec association-s,~ · ~} Q.u oo; s thns p 0 !' b .:inin,?; to t ::o se rel-: tionships have .:'U"isan. ~n --virtually· av~ri ;;oeathig ·· .,.. · :-}· , o f · ti'. c Con::: it tea n.nd the I:lt:l':1bers of the Cosni tt.ae :h.?..v~,- b a~ ~p:. essed . by the ap:PQ.~;..~nt ·.; lc'.Ck Of d.e:pend:A.ble, , .cle.::tr-cut fl.l1d nffici?.l arls\ve'i's for ·r..::o st;' Of the qu.::stions. Vhiclt- , /" He re rai s..;d.. t i..t at one tio·e ~n the p3.s.~ ther~-- Ha~S.'an a.greeaEm ~ ..;.. _ j or arrange!:lent - between the . Regt· .. lar Cb:.20on. Carriel," ·. Coni'ere:;ee .. Mcl th~, Contract ... Carrie-r Conference as to the procedure thnt \wuid. be follo• . .,ec. \·:he~ thoS'£LI-Qorif_erences Here · involved in a l:latter ll:pOT1 Hhich the:r held differing v'ie,.,s. '~\ ' -.:.- .. ...... . - . . .. . .-·. . . . :. :· : . . ' . . . . - We do not understancl, )l()\tevcr, th::-.t this ...greo::Jep.t or. arra ngei.:e!'l;t ev~r =:;ai?pli.;d to · other .i.,?A .Confere;:.ces or t:-:.[q; the ngree8ent . Hc..s of such chen'.cte_r ·A.s .~t9 Ri-o.:'Cide _ a r s .. o ... , , indu::; try conflicts or c~·ass-purposa, du:plicatiJ4-:; or cor.f using- aQtions by .A and the'"? -~.A Cor:.r' erencas. ~ · ···· · ·· ~ ~- .~ .- ,, ' ., 'To b.:;lieve t~t. riE;ht af this· qc::Jent, the average re2.der of this paragraph ·,. cg.:n_:ot state, with certair"t:i• just h0\1 tho G.etermii:lati on is m2.Q..e a.s tCJ \vhether ATA ··' ~>-:-· r ar.. ;,2.;1. C.::,nfcrer.ce Will b..:l.ndle n. cede.iL r:::a.tter or des cribe clearly· the working rel-::t ionships ·Jet ween- :hcse indi..!.stry orgC:..1:rza.tional uni t s. SoUle of us lm0'1. that :,.':!:'&-.;.I'-. Corn'erer.ce s:.o:.ff !:!embers tavo frequent. irdorm3.1 conferences, 2.t ~1hich D?..t ters ru·e 11 talked over 11 a.rui some infernal understandings or agreements may be ('·:-. . (lev eloped, but ..... t.at a:-e t~e guiding rll.les7 \fna·t c:mtrols if staff members don't . "- ·. e.gree? 'ruat happe."'ls if no i!:.!'or~al stu.ff discussir:m is helci1 How. or by whom. is it d..;cided th.e.t J.7.-i, an .~T.-. Confere:lce, or beth .AT A and a CQn.fercnce • . will hal)..dle a matter b.:dora eor~ress, r.c.c. or ctnenrise7 --, These are questio!'.s to Hh.ic.~ tho C-::r.1:1ittee ca:mot now fin.d. ' clear artd. definit :. i,;)g ans•.v~rs. 'le think t~..nt good business, ef:'ective crgcni~n,tion and. the \·lelfare of -our ·. {(, ·st a te ..r :>.ction ·as to the reli'.t ionships .b etvce!1 .. A~.;. c.Y""d. our C-)~:fere;:o.ces. RECo;.::.~~· ·- , .~ION The Coor>1ittee rccom..~ends to the ~:;;:ocutive Co:r~1ittee that the -folloWing be .?.dopted~ r.s ~'r~ rriil.~ 11 ... ~;--~~~ Co!:ference 11 .-RelL!tior:ships !l.l.""lti . Procedures: • . . ,. "- ~:e j;,. crptl !!c!. 0nt 2· ..ar:il i l: g ; in SUcTl nann:er'ae i t· see ~ fit, . of ' .• ~- ·- :. i ;..·,y c:~~~o r H iC:.:'1 is o f cxcl •J sive in t e x·est nnd COJ?. cern_to · its nen~ers alone! · , .. "' • ·" ~ ,. • - ' r ( o ) Ar.A, u pon r equest , shall l end all p o'ssible anli proper suppor't -•to any~ .-1.'¥ Cc; :L!. t: r t: JlCO in th e ha.ndlir.g of a r~atte r of .this type but· unusual, .: . ' . .. ex t r n.o r d:1ary r)l' special e:cp end.i tures 0f ATA funds ·or ti r:~e of N!IA employees · . f o r L. i ; P' ~-pos e ~l:.:tl l ot be 2:1de lfithout previous authcirizatioi1. by th~ . · . X:'.A 'Zxec u tive Co~mittce . · "" '· ( c ) '.f:'. iJt: :;:: cr. c'..Ct io!l Cc.!H!Ot p'rop er ly ' be r e quired, it iS reCOf.lf.lended J;hat .tt~r 'l c f co~-c ru a!'.d: i.nt c r est to t•.•/0 or nore ATA or' c·~:.·r i.c!'s ~-: 1:t !'.Ot 0f conctJrTl ;:.nd· interest to all ~rri cr : Conferences o-..;. ~l~sses cl ~sse s and types of - I . . ., - -~ ~ ' •) . .! •• A. i'fh.::n conflicting int8rcsts are Livoived:- · .. '- · ' . _ ... , , . ·.-... . .. _ .•... 1. ~To -.:'). Conference shc.ll proc.e.ed independently to take any- action _ \Jhic )l v1ill publicly evid.ence divisid:-t or co:r.flict "aoong truck operators·, 8:-;:cep t in' tonfor:nity .·:it : t;-e follo~'f' -i ng procedure. '· -. ; · · · >' · .: · · 2 . .:...t first ir-, C.ic e.ticn ·of conflicting interests, opinions or pos~tions as betH.:! GE tHo or r.::o"-·e JCA Conferences, ·. that ATA Conf rence :proposir.g to t .::.k e · o.i1 a ction "'~ch ':.:ill nubl i~ly · develop the existence of :, s1,1ch •: ( _ co:;.flict sl:.::!.ll cnll the L!e.tte~ to tho attention of' all t~ r conferences . and to the nt.te!lticn of. the President or i•innaging Director: oi' ;.:;;a. c 3. L}:lon such notice of · the develcipl!lent of conflict bet een two or.-.. more-• XI'.i. Qor:ferenct:s, tl:e Pres.iden.t ari':!/ or rl[ahagihg Di~ector · of ATA shall ·· · . fortbd. t!: arraz15e a ::Jeetip_g of res:,?onsible elective ·or appo ii:lt:i,ve 'ciflficlals of all of t!-.e QA Conferences \ihich are ihvoived .in the m::ttter~ . ' \ . . elective or ~ppointiYe officicl of any Con:t:e~erice \·J!'la c-ru{rio~ be present at. t his !:JE:lcting r.JD.y SllbL"li t his vie~·IS :{n ·vrd ting. -. T'nereaft er~ , everjy . effc-rt s:'lall 'be r::~d.e by all prese_nt to solve the: problem anAC tq - avoid -- .. tho n~Cessity uf D1..iblic CB!~Onstrn.tiO!l Of SUCh :conflict Of position WitlUU t~e ~k s of· t!: e ir: c~ u.str~r~ . . . - . ' . - r. ':·- :~ ' (. - -~. ·· L1. If, e.ft :;r 2x.l:a"J..ston of t~e pre-Cedi!)6 efforts .to- .avert ·- p\lbl-tc iSP~ey of clifferences ...-ithin tile trucking i ndustry, one cr nor~ of the ~ .ATA ,; ·conf ere!"!.ccs !~ eel s )·d.cp eilcd. to tf'J~c inG.ependent action, s.Qth action L!c'.y be . ,trken --provided, r~o,.:ever, th0.t it- s;w.ll n,ot actually be initiated unti~ , vJTitten · ll:·iotice of,,,I !1 te!1tiop to Take Indepe:1dent ·Actionll has .been ~eliver- . 'ed pe:tso!'.ally to the P,rcsic'.'ent or 2--::~.na in g Ilir E> ctor of 'AT.A (or.in their · · absen~e to the General ·i·!a:1.1.ger or Gen erc .. J Counsel of "AT.A.)' :and ,such dtice hc.s b ee:1 deliv~red personally or ::1.:iled to the Onairnen ··or e·ach othel' :..nn ir) ;-~ ac cccrpa.-. i·~s t he: ind.cpen clen t nc tisn t o make clea r to the pu.blic ;}!ld ttJ nny. a:~d D.ll intcNstcd.. parties thr•. t such ::~.c tion is being t:• 'r.cn 'L :; F'. c(' ~~f c: r-Pr. ce of }. ,..,A . :tr.d . EQ · o;~A~A •. ..IF:.?.! ~· 'Y.'li s distinction cus.:. spoci:c'icu.lly .b8 m2.Lte- clun.r·, ... h~ n ··the indp-per:d.ent" .. ?.ctiott··.i nvolyes · public no•.'ls. rele2.s3s or f ilin&s o r · plea.dL1gs ·in co!lnection \otith eg~ or ref;i.ll.:J.'corJ pro9eodings. . '· ... : . , . . , .. :: :·.- · . :f ri tten r.:::prtJsenta:;icr !:!ad.e by .-\rr-. und.cr t h is p roceC..ur e . 2. Th·.:! .-.:.-. :S::xccutivo Comoittoe :JR~' !'llthorize L:.de:?er:dent P-cti9ri by · one or l?loro of the Ar:/... Conf er-:n c..Js in any mitt t ar c:' such g·enernl interest Hhen in ol:o j:.tc'.g'P.ent c f the Bxccutive Comci ittoe ·s uch L1d..t3pendent acti·:>n t.hould be e_u : hor-izcd. B. In q:e course o f the prepnrntion 2-'1d pres·ent c>.tion of repres3ritCLtions 1 a s to thG apininn, d 2sires or posi ticn of t..~o .-\mcr.i c[Q Truckir1g Industry.· in con:.'HJctic n \lith nr;Y matter ()f j ntera5t--to the i 11:.lustry in general, 'the . .o.t " 1 ''~o r." •· .. ~;;, ,.e·t - •• ,L; ,..r.. •t pnc .,..;.1 lj0r \ '"fi ; _ ~l· c V .o. r.-"' ::l __ of ,."1. ·, ,.,' . .. '". ,..· .;") ... , (...,., ,1.. · ~ --.::.quo~" 1. V ::l, lo .. 1., ,•• )C> ~ (.. "'"~.... S·l· st"~L l'• C"' """ - or~ tl-~ ..,J,tj ~"1. 'T'' ,.", Co .l11-·"r··,''C8"' ""~ ·' ,...,11 .,.~ .. ,ret' <> ~--, !'~ . T"" - ~e ,.. ., "'" b~ .. , .t ' ty - '-' t.: , ., .. .. . .. ~n, __ .. IJ.:J e,_c .. -•--· cn ~ ... e r.'-' ~~.::e.s '-'--a. J..c o:ppor un1 .. t n . .. :) ,..\ l"' ::.. i i .. ~ "' ..... -, t. ..., -,.. . , 1 .; r ...., - ..... . 1 . ' ) "' ""' ..,.... ...., . .l ...... ~ ., , • ,... • , ... ..... · r,. t . , pre:p.- t.:: t'U1L p.t.., ... n Io~ lJ.c _us .... ,,. 1.- .s.tcu -'-':9 ~'-' sc: q,:•tl..ns l.,I or,::CL 1on RS to its special ~tc asi~; npi~ n~ s f r posi ti9n s. · IV. Dctermin{-lt ion nf inter0sts i nvol\·0d irt ::m:r mR tt er. •'- A. Respo n s ibili ty fo~· i:we~tig .... t.i o.!: to d ct..tter included "'i thi n t hose rul es of l)r::;coch!!'e f:Uls 'lit!1i::. Cl £tssific.:-t ion I, II, or qr, a0cve, s!ll'.ll rc ::; t vr i r.:nrily llJ)~n t!: b o..! n suggo nted th.1.t it will be definitely promotive of better. \Ulderlocia· plan v: ~! r '',l,i:{ ~t J wi il ;~ t.rf'?'n{o:t;)J-i.;: r, • our .. t; &r.tH al . in.du:; t.ry · 'o rgM l ~t ton 'by ; :3t ~ength ~ni ng · :. ·, o,r' r:,•:r J! ~U!!'r:(cr;: td.zat n~d. ur.it:: , ¥/6 boli.~;ve that ou~t eventually . ' " . . . . . . . . c ,Jc' '('.tci U: e iz~ on tiit:l.l we irirylede our own protsrcs.~ wh,e n .we):'aU to - · r· ·· .:pi zu'the ~t:: rtt~Jnr ::t) .. l threo of- .o:u r ·o r .t.ua iz at'i onal U.'lLts ;:t.nd d,Q. .not _ t·(l ml rl b·.1t e to i~M~nooi t of- ~;.,u. th·r ae . - vte undurstand. , that wh~t ~~ . are about ·. h l: t.. co ::~: L:~ct ,r:.)y, noC: ."a t. .f r~t glJ.nco, . seem prac:tic?..ble ?ild. that· ·c_ori'siderP.ble L J.;.:rJ:t :u: ~ di ;c~ ::;sio ui~9!1 the. pa.I't: of: a1 l .c once rne d ~:ey b.e' . . required. before . ! · l~~ l:e is rrmuf' .l mel':lbel;s of ea.e·h. --~ th.cit~thel~e lie developed . ntid -put into .oper[',.tion 3 · .. pl~tn :for (3fllarging~ the' memberships. of • th state .. i\J ~· ci atio~~· ; vtassocia.- ·tlurltl, --.A'l'A Co~1fc:re nc .'l and A''.L\ . in . tl:. .l ·mi3J'1bcrs for l ·L 1ui utate iis:Jotin.tio!l3 rillci ·the co~fere;ces and that all o·f our ··arganlzationaJ. ·. lL'1i t:J · adopt n.'l d. · pursutl a . consinte=:t policy of . cooperat_ion and.· oll a.borati~n,.. · each 'lith the .other, . 11nli. all tageth~r, .in _ the dr;;iv_e :·for ·a bigg~r,·. sttonge:r:, ; 11!0 re ' effectiVe ' ;:ln_cf .J'8,Sj)G C tC::d. /1 OrfJ.tional .nd Sta~e Org~ization was 'fo.rmed: ~~-a 'special . coP.11n it tee. to . s tug.y .. the . E;cne.,rq."i~ o rGa'1i zatio nal .set-up and fund ion ing pf th~ orgnniied trucking· tn~tu~~t~y~ .. H.or-e .th~n t,,o years have··:bee.n devoted :tc( such · (. ) . ·~ P.n e x;nination : ol .Q'cir.. orgn:uizhtfon·. and the Comm1ttee .has' developed a n-umber of·recor.m:endatior1 s fo_r irirQ~ov:emen.t in.the·effec'tivenes.s: and -efficiency· of our ar.s.n.ni'za~ional un£ t~: ~o.;t of. , t..~esa 1·a~ommenP. ati·oni h~.ve -beJ:ri :e:dopt-eci a.'ld -- . .- we believe that \J!"iep t.}j_e reCQ!JI:Jend_ations. eon~ainerl. i:rr thi·g ".fefiort nave been ··c·.Cted uncin' by ·t ·he ihd.u,st.:oro~i-lo~en t of· t~e : motor truck in the tran~ortation o f - pro~ierty· in t~is count1.·y. · . . ' ... '.J. \ . - ~ He do not believe·that the · trucking industry-ce.n, at this · tiiJaj.:dis:?enae·· f 1vi th o.~y one of" t~1ese three orga:-lizational. un, _ ts, ·.H tho1.1.t rasuJ.tc:>~'1t. loss·- in the effectiveness of the inc:lust:r; au an orva.nized. force.· 'ra.do . beli-evo · that there· i.s-still room for. clarificati~n - of : the~ fields wit.!"lin:-.\oJhich i . · ep.ch· of · these essential orr,anizationaJ. tmi t$- wilL fu.'1ction · C~"...!ld;: that,., as tioe pass·es, ·1Jrogress can and sh.ouJ,d· be _ Elad.e · nlong· the· line-.. of:: 11 tight.ening up 11 our orgpJ1izational !!la!hinery ~~ud..c eliminati.r:.t.s d.uplicating· servicet · e.ctivities and costs to tr..a 'truck O:Jerator~. . . . . . . ·· . 1 (3) \ The principle' of J:l?.intaihinr. our truc~~s industry orsanizaticn as. a 11 f edera tion of state t ruckin:; as soc ia tions·,. \·lith a. central Hast.ir.gton, l:ea.dquart er s a!1d spec i ?..1 Conference units for: S"r.JeCi?.l servic 8 tc snec iA.l gr ?u:~'ls 11 · is sound.. - .- - · ·· ; It r.mst be recosnized by all, h0\o{8Ver, tha:t . W6 CClr'JOt ho11e ·to h?.'"e and to r.t?.intain the r:1ost nearly perfect orgMiz;:\tior.i alan;:; these. lines until e>nd unless "/8 solve the fund?Dental ~)roblems of :finr.r..ci.:'~R of the V!lrio'.ls co!:J:_Jonent ])P_rts of our orr;p.ni Zc:>.tion. So long as we require. e?.ch of our orga.ni z:-..tiona.l units to depend U!Jon its own ingenuity fl.nd eDerg'J for .its cor..ti_r.ued e:Q.stence, WJ; _____ -----~7-'- s!--.all · to some extent req'J.ire our ·various orga..."'!iz?.tio~.l ur..its to 11 cor.1:nete 11 · for support frcir:1 the truck operators, who, i~! the fin-"'.l e.r~alysis~ Dust TJ?:Y the "bill. . . .. - .. -· - . • l 'I"h.is comr:Jittee is .. rr:Jly of the ou1n1on that if this t:touble~ope question of ~de quat e fin ?.!!C i ng, · ~he--· stat-e -~s soc i?.tions, the .;.')}~A C cinfe'reric es a."'ld };.':!:A;· . itself, could. be r resolved. t~e. industry vould 1)Q!1efi t £:rDP.tly 11 ~.:!. would:.- " ' hnve tnken n. very · s·tep fowe>.rd . tr..e cievelbp!!!ent , of tp.e ~o st efficient ' orsnnizfl.t"ion..U oac ~·le de :1ot believe t:-tat a final ;md. aC':eqU.ate solution· of U:is firi;:~ncin "! 81:'! C .<>n be e.:..;>ected 1'\t "ari 'early d?~te, but we cU-e cei·trt.in such a solution rn~s ioRt ely be fo '.lnd P. n~i. .fe beli.eve tr..~ t .it '"~il be _ to· - the best interests o H~1ci· r.re af'fccted for tl:em to devote .!~~ rious cantimrlrig '!nil coonerntive tp · to the St3arch for the n. - · ~':. __ :.. ~ - ~" .-. :-10- ' _ _.. 43 ~ ' 324 . :--·Jc ~·C:i:Jt..7 .~'1:l tG' :~ r.:d t~ at ·, ry e r.:ployea c f t~f( t -inC.u::.try rfn.l5t -e oJ;t~id. er l.i ~:1 l.t' :·J •,:\r:; c f t r.e :'tt:uif! 11 w:-.ic b ::: 1-c: l:; or; .divi,!iuals etnd. Vu our- h Cl'.ch of our 9:rsMizationpl .1..'1its, must. bring to benr the gr.e.atest · ··' '>Ct ~JS UJ"O of W'hich ·;~e :>T C Ct'..:pablo tO incul,Cr!te into trucking OperatOrS and , t Ii.H; kbf'· or ;:- ~nizn.tion er.r'[')loyees p_n uncier:;tund.ing· Md. observance- of! the absolute r:ccos:;i_ty for 11 holC.ing UI). each other 1 n: hands" in: .the common campaign .. · Insofar. ;!:> we · tolen.te btrr'.-ir.d.).lstry bickoring ?nd destructiye·.- cri tic ism, , we reduce ·· t~8 8ffccti veness of tl:e c.rgMizet'. inctustry and retard· the: d.evelo"(Jment of the r c:c.c lly i:reat or-:anizntion. of whi.ch we P.re potentiallY capable. : : : ·~ . . ----- l:CO~l:-8ID- I A'?IOiJ . ·- ·-·----· :__!. 'Et' !NATION OF E-£E COI,iMITTEE The · Go!:'.!:!i ttee on National and State Organization reco~end~ to the ATA 3xecuti ve Cor.mittee t:ta t I with . the acceptance by the :SxeC'~tive Co!:l."!littee of. this 'B.nsfer such fu;·1c tians and responsibilities to · the . Subco:J8ittee .on Orc e.nize..tion::tl Matters ..chich is maint~ined by . the ~xeeutive Coani ttee as one of i v sta."lclin~; cor.1:1i t tees. " , . . . .. , · ' • .. .. Re S!JElC tfull.Y subl!li t ted, ; CoElmi ttee on national ~d Stat!J . . Or&arii .ze,.tion· ~ --: · ---5 1177 ,. .• -{ ( ; .. 44. 325 Gentlemen: SUBJECT: Sixth and·final Report of the Cownittee on National and State Organization. . Jllc. .• ! - I enclose .a copy of the above indicated Si:cth Report. This r eport was adoptedby tf!l~ .-.T.A Executive Committee at its meetir..g in 'las~ington last v1eek. The .ATA Committee on National and State Organization r...a.s been discharged and its duties and responsibilities have been transferred to the standing Subcommittee on Organizational Matters which is maintained by the ATA Executive Coinmittee. T'ne more than t110 years' \vork pf the Committee on National an:d State Organization has, I am sure, contributed much tt>.at is of value to our inldustry. I believe there is general opinion that our industry orgnnization_p.J. machinery has been improved · as a rc::sul t of the studies and recorruJendations of the Committee. \fe believe, and. there seems to be general e>.greern~nt, tha t what has been done vill definitely qontribute to th_e b_e.t_term.ent o.f_ our-s-ta.te -as-so &i-at-io-hs-.- ou-r-:-All'-o.A.:--Ge·af.eren-ces- and...:..A!i?Ar p·ro.pe-r-.---• ......,_.~ All of us, indi.;,idually a.nd in our organizational u'ni ts, must go on from here - with full determi.rration to develop to the full e st the ·collaboration, the cooperation ~ . .... -·------- ----r, tho ir..quiries~ ·nod the friillk and opjechve discussion '!'ffiicb. :#"as · encourn.:,~d hy the Colll.mittee has helped to lay that fotin~ · tion. \ ' \ ... _., .. :;.,,),, ·..; ··· ·;.. ... ! .. ~ - ...I h...-"'. s been accoiiJPlished is to the credit of the f i r: e p eople who · b .• 'l.v e s o earne stly ·a nd . sincerely carri ed 0:1 e.nd as sis ted Hi t h tl"le rork of hhe Goinmi t'te • They clicl the j,ob. It Has sinply' IT!:/ fortune to have opportUnity to Hork wl th t h em. .. ; ',·· ·. , .":. l ~ : : . \ , ,. . '( o\ i · . . I . ' '· 1. ...... ... ..s J: ' . . _ . t :~: • , .. ;; ; . . I I _' j. ! .o.s Cha iro u,n of tl1o Col!l!r!ittee, ~t is ny delegated ciuty and ·· my pleasure to p a ss on to ea ch oenb er of the Cor:ll:littee, · each pr si de n t and :.1nnEtg er o f a sta te associ a tion, each Confereilce chairuc.m and li1a.n.1ge r cL'"!d ea ch industry r.1 eober .-ho 41-elped. ~ith the 't a sk, the v ory r e al appre ciation o f the indus tl"'J' and of :th.e AT..l. Executive Cor.1r:litt ce . To each c f you~ the ir tha.nks. · ( A.nd froc tl c, pct·nonn.lly. oy ~r. J bdJJfldne~s. It hn.s buen ~n ~~ Inality, Mr. B~e~? Are you an old line American? ' . . Buhne r: - I am. I 1m a fourth and in some place a fif.th· • i . I ·"! I -'~ d t G / - i ----'-t-ese-e-n -an , - ce-I!man •. -----------,~------t---,-------;·~._r~------- -~~ I ' Woods: And they settled here several years _ S:io in _ Se~our r, - \ . - ~-- I suppose? Buhner: They settled in what they Jackson Courity• ,- -j Most of my forefathers from back in ~-···-- ~ ions were ttll '. 1 ,-- - farmers. They, _ - ... ---most o~ 'em,-~ ... - .- up the Mississippi River up the'Ohio and then settl~d about ... - ~ - 50 miles North of Louisville. ' - tf ·- - . a settl-ement - - '- up there, and my father _ t' were born and raised ther&, in fi -, - . country. - Some ~f them, _ - - --- I don't recall just who~ came- from the far c:otintry . - - -·' Btthner 329 into Cincinnatti and then i came down; . ·and wer~ settled in that country there. . ~ Woods: Well, you're what they wouid call an American· Continental. You've been here· four generations. Buhner: Four, and in some respects; .f:i,ve. Woods: · We have just heard the Buhner Report; the ~ible · . . ' of American Trucking,.£ ~~9m the time of its conce·ption to this very day. It gave a rule or' ·thumb _guide to ~ a loosely · . " formed industcy in 1947 .that we.lded not only interstate but all brancpes, types and classifications of the entire industry,into the world's second ' largest industry. Second .. •• • 'I ' only to agriqulture ~ Our trucking industry responded whle · ... heartily to the Buhner Repor~· and· in compliance to - !:- Section C under Artic~e 2 of the 6th. Report sUggesting · , a Washington headquarters; today stands a building at' . 1616 P Street, Washington, . D.C., wh:i.ctr· is the "TT'Jr+:-l~nr"'--;----'-'----'--~----,--J . . headquarters ofthe _ATAs. Altho~ghthe:te has been no basic . changes of the B~er Report since it was 'first submitted in 1947, there .have been some addltions in Gonferences and Off±cers; stch as, vice _presidents an.d $ti-forth. ·I believe · todlcy' ther~ are 13 Conferences instead of the origin.a_l 10' _· -mentioned in -this report. What is. a Conference . in the ATAs? · ~ So the student will · know.: An ATA Conferehce is a- group . ·• . representing one specialized, field; . b,rim